Virginia

[roccit_53 at scirocco.cs.uoguelph.ca (C Boyko)]

Well, we're all happily armed here in my house with a nice paper trail to
go with it. But we have a new ban on the books now, incandescent bulbs. So
only criminals will have them too I guess. The whole gun thing is never
gonna get sorted out, my son always said they should restrict ammo.
One wonders if the nutbars in the US would be less nutso if health care
wasn't so expensive.
Cathy


On 9:23 am 04/18/07 "Brian McGarvey" <bmcgarvey@gmail.com> wrote:
> First off .. my heart goes out to the people associated with the Va
> Tech shootings.
>
> Now to the socio-political debate.
>
> The HUGE difference between the Drivers License, Car registration etc
> and gun registration.
>
> Driving is a privilege not a right -- check your drivers license.
> You operate a motor vehicle on public road ways paid for by tax
> payers, daily in most  cases.
>
> The statement that *every* car or truck must be registered is patently
> false. I personally own/co-own 5 cars that are not registered. Two of
> the 5 run and drive and are quite fast -- these are dedicated track
> vehicles.
>
> Does motor vehicle registration and required insurance keep car
> thieves from stealing cars. They are registered and tracked.
>
> Criminals by their very nature ignore the laws we pass, as is proven
> in DC, Baltimore, other cities that have banned all weapons. The only
> thing that has been done is to ensure passive vicitims of criminals
> by disarm the victims NOT the criminals.
>
> Jean-Claude is correct on one point. Firearm operation does not
> require years of training for basic operation, not do they generally
> require great strength.
> They single handedly ended the rule of the biggest and the strongest,
> along with the longbow. They even the playing field between a 200+ lb
> attacker and a 100lb intended victim. As the resident extremely large
> individual that can actually use a broadsword -- I should be saying
> go gun control, but I'm not
> you have to ask why.
>
> Jean-Claude is also correct we are the bastion of democracy, but in
> the time frame of history we are but a blip on the timeline of
> history, much like the Spartans.
>
>
> A firearm you do not operate on any public roadway.. Thats called a
> drive by shooting.
> A firearm when operated in a safe manner -- ie. target / hunting
> practice is generally done on private property on the East coast.
> A firearm when operated in a self defensive manner is generally
> discharged in one's OWN home.
>
>
> The second amendment is NOT about
> Hunting,
> Fishing -- Alaska style with halibut
> Target practice
> Self-defense against criminals
> Entertainment
> etc.
>
> It is about being able to refresh the tree of liberty with the blood
> of tyrants.
> A well-regulated militia -- meant a well TRAINED militia. Not a well
> documented unarmed populace.
>
> The framers had big debates on whether to even bother with including
> the amendment as they had just finished overthrowing the British with
> personally owned weapons. It was obvious to them.
>
> FBI statistics on Homicides with guns.
> http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/weapons.htm
> Total homicides ~15,000
>
> Fatal Car crashes
> http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/main.cfm
> ~ 43,000
>
> For basic FACTS.
> NYC previously instituted a Gun registration. Same reasons pretty
> much. Then a short time later the went around and SEIZED the weapons.
>
> Washington DC has nearly 100% gun ban in effect --
> It is #4 on the list.. Yes I know Wiki-pedia is not 100% reliable
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Cities_by_Crime_Rate
>
> Also BIG HUGE PET PEEVE of mine.
> Assault weapons are by definition are FULLY AUTOMATIC. None of the
> weapons metioned in this thread are fully auto.
>
> Throwing stickers on your STi no more makes it a pro-rally car than
> painting a weapon black and putting a bayonet lug on it makes it full
> auto. That is the reason its called the Big scary looking gun ban --
> that it.
>
> A 30-06 (typical hunting rifle) & M1903-A3 (ww1&ww2 bolt action
> rifle) & M60 (actually machine gun) all take the same DAMN ammo.
>
> A semi-automatic  1 trigger pull == 1 bullet
> select fire typical on m-16
>    ( single shot) -- 1 trigger pull  --- 1 bullet
>    ( burst mode)  -- 1 trigger pull --- 3 bullets
>    ( fully auto mode) -- 1 trigger pull  --  fully auto fire  usually
> empties the clip. used for  suppressive fire .. keeping the enemy
> heads down.
>
> Things that define a legal assault weapon
> Pistol grip
> flash suppressor
> folding stock
> grenade launcher attachment -- (ww2 style)
> bayonet lug.
> None of these things even mention action operation ( how the damn
> firearm works)
>
> its like saying that a riced car is a racecar because it has
> stickers, a wing, a fart can, a big radio, and a body kit. without
> mentioning things that actually MAKE it go fast.
>
>
>
> Bigmac -- I've had this argument before.
> ** The real reason the Repulocrats won the 1994 election -- brady
> bill / so-called assualt weapons ban **
>
>
> On 4/17/07, Jean-Claude D?sinor <desinor@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >
> >    I would like Canada to clean up it's act by making the Gun
> >  Registry more efficient.
> >    And *every* firearm must be registered. Just the same as every
> >  automobile or truck.
> >    Manufacturers will be accountable until a sale is registered.
> >    Owners who sell their guns without registering or reporting it
> >  lost or stolen are accountable.
> >    Firearms are designed for just one purpose: to kill.  Whether to
> >  defend yourself, get food, attack or cover your rears, the power
> >  of a gun is that it kills. And that power does not require a
> >  specific skill or strenght.
> >    You may own one if you want to, for protection or whatever other
> >  reason, but you must be accountable for whatever happens with that
> >  firearm.
> >
> >      Jean-Claude
> >      84 8v
> >
> >  marc_scirocco@sympatico.ca wrote:
> > >  Agreed.
> > >  Thanks for the info.
> > >
> > >  Hopefully Canada will scrape its gun control law soon.
> > >
> > >
> > >>  De: "Parker Wulf" <badvdub@gmail.com>
> > >>  Date: 2007/04/17 mar. PM 08:09:24 EDT
> > >>  ?: list <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > >>  Objet: Re: Virginia
> > >>
> > >>  This is from a post on a Honda rincon forum(atv). Not trying to
> >  fuel a fire
> > >>  or anything, just thought this was interesting. I think less gun
> >  control,
> > >>  less crime.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>  "GUN CONTROL HISTORY & FACTS:
> > >>
> > >>  Whether you agree or not, it's an interesting lesson in history.
> > >>  Something to think about...
> > >>
> > >>  In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.
> > >> > From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to
> > >>  defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
> > >>  ------------------------------
> > >>  In 1911, Turkey established gun control.
> > >> > From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend
> > >>  themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
> > >>  ------------------------------
> > >>
> > >>  Germany established gun control in 1938. From 1939 to 1945, a
> > >>  total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable
> > >>  to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
> > >>  ------------------------------
> > >>
> > >>  China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20
> > >>  million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were
> > >>  rounded up and exterminated.
> > >>  ------------------------------
> > >>
> > >>  Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981,
> > >>  100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were
> > >>  rounded up and exterminated.
> > >>  ------------------------------
> > >>
> > >>  Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979,
> > >>  300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded
> > >>  up and exterminated.
> > >>  ------------------------------
> > >>
> > >>  Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one
> > >>  million educated' people, unable to defend
> > >>  themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
> > >>  -----------------------------
> > >>
> > >>  Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th
> > >>  Century because of gun control: 56 million.
> > >>  ------------------------------
> > >>
> > >>  It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were
> > >>  forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be
> > >>  destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia
> > >>  taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.
> > >>
> > >>  The first year results are now in: Australia-wide, homicides
> > >>  are up 3.2 percent. Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent.
> > >>  Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44
> > >> percent)!
> > >>  In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now
> > >>  up 300 percent.
> > >>
> > >>  Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the
> > >>  criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!
> > >>
> > >>  While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady
> > >>  decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed
> > >>  drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now
> > >>  are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.
> > >>  There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and
> > >>  assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss
> > >>  to explain how public safety has decreased, after such
> > >>  monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully
> > >>  ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience
> > >> and the other historical facts above prove it.
> > >>  You won't see this data on the American evening news or hear our
> > >>  president, governors or other politicians disseminating this
> > >>  information. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and
> > >>  property and, yes gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding
> > >>  citizens.
> > >>
> > >>  Take note my fellow Americans.....before it's too late!
> > >>
> > >>  The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please
> > >>  remind them of this history lesson.
> > >>
> > >>  With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'.
> > >>
> > >>  If you value your freedom, Please print and spread this anti-gun
> >  control
> > >>  message to all of your friends."
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>  On 4/17/07, Jean-Claude D?sinor <desinor@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>  Like it or not, eventually some form of gun control will
> > >>> happen.
> > >>>
> >
> >  _______________________________________________
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> >  Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
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> >
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