Foaming filler?

[fahrvergnugen at cox.net (David Utley)]

Friend of mine a good while back, brought this article up to me on 
Vortex.  I think the reason we scrapped that idea for now is because of 
no easy way to mix the two components.  Looks like the company has taken 
care of this problem.  In fact, when I checked with them last by phone, 
they said they did not make this stuff any longer.  Looks like that 
changed...


Thanks for posting that link up again...

David




julie@menloparkrandd.com wrote:
> I just checked Ebay. Tool and foam $1500, but with 2 55 gallon drums of the stuff. Maybe a Cincy thing....
> Great post by the way. It'd be a great way to reduce road/engine noise as well.
>
>   
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Erik Patterson [mailto:pats16v@columbus.rr.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 12:27 PM
>> To: julie@menloparkrandd.com, 'Org, Scirocco'
>> Subject: Re: Foaming filler?
>>
>> This may help, taken from a very un-VW magazine.
>>
>> http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/projectcars/0006scc_proj300zx/
>>
>>
>> Foam-Filling the Chassis
>> In any high-performance car, it is impossible to make the chassis too stiff. 
>> The stiffer the chassis, the higher its natural frequency, making the energy 
>> imparted to it by bumps less likely to excite the body's structure. A 
>> stiffer chassis enables the use of stiffer springs and shocks without 
>> hurting the ride. This is because a stiff, non-flexing chassis transfers 
>> more force into the suspension where it can be dissipated by the springs and 
>> shocks instead of transferring the force to the occupants. A stiff chassis 
>> is also more responsive to roll rate tuning for balancing understeer and 
>> oversteer. This is one of the reasons why automotive engineers are 
>> continually investigating ways to stiffen chassis without adding weight.
>>
>> In a final bit of reengineering to stiffen the body, we injected the chassis 
>> with catalyzed rigid structural polyurethane foam. Structural foam, in the 2 
>> lb per cubic foot density that we used, can stiffen chassis members up to 40 
>> percent.
>>
>> Higher densities of foam can increase stiffness by up to 300 percent. Since 
>> we cannot retool custom parts to redo the Z's body, we figured that this 
>> would be an excellent, low-cost way of greatly increasing chassis stiffness. 
>> Injecting foam is not a new technique for chassis stiffening. The Infiniti 
>> Q45 uses this sort of foam in some of its chassis members to increase 
>> stiffness, as do a few other premium cars. In fact, the foam we chose is the 
>> foam recommended to repair damaged Q45s.
>>
>> To get the correct foam for our project, we contacted Art Goldman, 
>> Foamseal's automotive product manager and author of an SAE (Society of 
>> Automotive Engineers) paper on the use of structural foam for the stiffening 
>> of automotive unibody structures. We used Foamseal's two-component foam kit, 
>> p/n 11-22 to fill the main members of the chassis. Like we mentioned 
>> earlier, Foamseal is the supplier that I-CAR, a national certification group 
>> for quality auto repair, recommends for the repair of damaged, foam-filled 
>> chassis. The Foamseal kit uses a two-part catalyzed polyurethane foam, which 
>> quickly cures into rigid, waterproof, closed-cell foam. To prep the car, we 
>> carefully masked off all painted areas anywhere where the foam could drip. 
>> As this sort of foam is a thermosetting catalyzed plastic, we realized it 
>> could be icky if it spilled on paint or any part of the car's interior. This 
>> foam is nasty stuff. It is impervious to all known solvents and cleaners.
>>
>> Rubber gloves must be worn. Get some of it on your hands and it will stay 
>> there for more than 3 weeks--don't ask how we know. Do not get this stuff on 
>> your paint. Wear old clothes; we ruined ours while learning how to handle 
>> the product. We injected the foam into the rocker panels and frame rails of 
>> Project Z through existing bolt and drain holes. When injected, the foam 
>> reacts like shaving cream and quickly expands to fill the empty space. You 
>> can judge how much foam to add by watching its expansion progress through 
>> some of the holes. Once injected, the foam expands and begins to cure in 
>> about a minute so you need to work fast and plan how you inject the foam 
>> before you start.
>>
>> The life of the foam kit is limited to a few hours once the seal is broken. 
>> We filled all of the Z's unibody frame members using five foam kits. When 
>> foaming a chassis, you must remember the wires and other lines that pass 
>> through the chassis must be relocated or they will be entombed forever.
>>
>> We were amazed at how this simple procedure improved the performance of the 
>> car. The chassis now almost feels like it has a roll cage. A sloped driveway 
>> can be driven up sideways with nary a creak. Even though the Z already has a 
>> pretty tight chassis, it feels more solid. The ride has improved and road 
>> noise has been reduced noticeably. We bet that the car will be even more 
>> responsive to chassis tuning measures in the future. If you are a slalom 
>> racer, a road racer, have a lowered car or even just want a smoother ride; 
>> foaming is a worthy, easy-to-do modification. Foamseal has foams in 
>> densities as high as 10 lbs per square foot if you desire to make things 
>> even stiffer.
>>
>> Do not--I repeat--do not attempt to use cheap, hardware-store canned foam. 
>> This is not the same thing, and if injected into your chassis, will form a 
>> gummy mass that won't dry. Foamseal foam is a professional grade foam, which 
>> although it is a little unforgiving to cleanup mistakes, has superior 
>> mechanical properties and catalytic curing so it will dry even in an 
>> enclosed space.
>>
>>
>>
>> HTH
>>
>>
>>
>> Erik
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: <julie@menloparkrandd.com>
>> To: "Org, Scirocco" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 11:57 AM
>> Subject: Foaming filler?
>>
>>
>>     
>>> I asked this before and got no awnser.
>>> 1) What can be used to seal and replace the monkee s**t that coats the 
>>> inside of the fenders?
>>> 2) Can standard sealing foam (canned) be used to fill in the spaces like 
>>> the A pillar (instead of the foam block)?
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Scirocco-l mailing list
>>> Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
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>>>       
>>     
>
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