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Foaming filler?
I just checked Ebay. Tool and foam $1500, but with 2 55 gallon drums of the stuff. Maybe a Cincy thing....
Great post by the way. It'd be a great way to reduce road/engine noise as well.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Erik Patterson [mailto:pats16v@columbus.rr.com]
>Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 12:27 PM
>To: julie@menloparkrandd.com, 'Org, Scirocco'
>Subject: Re: Foaming filler?
>
>This may help, taken from a very un-VW magazine.
>
>http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/projectcars/0006scc_proj300zx/
>
>
>Foam-Filling the Chassis
>In any high-performance car, it is impossible to make the chassis too stiff.
>The stiffer the chassis, the higher its natural frequency, making the energy
>imparted to it by bumps less likely to excite the body's structure. A
>stiffer chassis enables the use of stiffer springs and shocks without
>hurting the ride. This is because a stiff, non-flexing chassis transfers
>more force into the suspension where it can be dissipated by the springs and
>shocks instead of transferring the force to the occupants. A stiff chassis
>is also more responsive to roll rate tuning for balancing understeer and
>oversteer. This is one of the reasons why automotive engineers are
>continually investigating ways to stiffen chassis without adding weight.
>
>In a final bit of reengineering to stiffen the body, we injected the chassis
>with catalyzed rigid structural polyurethane foam. Structural foam, in the 2
>lb per cubic foot density that we used, can stiffen chassis members up to 40
>percent.
>
>Higher densities of foam can increase stiffness by up to 300 percent. Since
>we cannot retool custom parts to redo the Z's body, we figured that this
>would be an excellent, low-cost way of greatly increasing chassis stiffness.
>Injecting foam is not a new technique for chassis stiffening. The Infiniti
>Q45 uses this sort of foam in some of its chassis members to increase
>stiffness, as do a few other premium cars. In fact, the foam we chose is the
>foam recommended to repair damaged Q45s.
>
>To get the correct foam for our project, we contacted Art Goldman,
>Foamseal's automotive product manager and author of an SAE (Society of
>Automotive Engineers) paper on the use of structural foam for the stiffening
>of automotive unibody structures. We used Foamseal's two-component foam kit,
>p/n 11-22 to fill the main members of the chassis. Like we mentioned
>earlier, Foamseal is the supplier that I-CAR, a national certification group
>for quality auto repair, recommends for the repair of damaged, foam-filled
>chassis. The Foamseal kit uses a two-part catalyzed polyurethane foam, which
>quickly cures into rigid, waterproof, closed-cell foam. To prep the car, we
>carefully masked off all painted areas anywhere where the foam could drip.
>As this sort of foam is a thermosetting catalyzed plastic, we realized it
>could be icky if it spilled on paint or any part of the car's interior. This
>foam is nasty stuff. It is impervious to all known solvents and cleaners.
>
>Rubber gloves must be worn. Get some of it on your hands and it will stay
>there for more than 3 weeks--don't ask how we know. Do not get this stuff on
>your paint. Wear old clothes; we ruined ours while learning how to handle
>the product. We injected the foam into the rocker panels and frame rails of
>Project Z through existing bolt and drain holes. When injected, the foam
>reacts like shaving cream and quickly expands to fill the empty space. You
>can judge how much foam to add by watching its expansion progress through
>some of the holes. Once injected, the foam expands and begins to cure in
>about a minute so you need to work fast and plan how you inject the foam
>before you start.
>
>The life of the foam kit is limited to a few hours once the seal is broken.
>We filled all of the Z's unibody frame members using five foam kits. When
>foaming a chassis, you must remember the wires and other lines that pass
>through the chassis must be relocated or they will be entombed forever.
>
>We were amazed at how this simple procedure improved the performance of the
>car. The chassis now almost feels like it has a roll cage. A sloped driveway
>can be driven up sideways with nary a creak. Even though the Z already has a
>pretty tight chassis, it feels more solid. The ride has improved and road
>noise has been reduced noticeably. We bet that the car will be even more
>responsive to chassis tuning measures in the future. If you are a slalom
>racer, a road racer, have a lowered car or even just want a smoother ride;
>foaming is a worthy, easy-to-do modification. Foamseal has foams in
>densities as high as 10 lbs per square foot if you desire to make things
>even stiffer.
>
>Do not--I repeat--do not attempt to use cheap, hardware-store canned foam.
>This is not the same thing, and if injected into your chassis, will form a
>gummy mass that won't dry. Foamseal foam is a professional grade foam, which
>although it is a little unforgiving to cleanup mistakes, has superior
>mechanical properties and catalytic curing so it will dry even in an
>enclosed space.
>
>
>
>HTH
>
>
>
>Erik
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <julie@menloparkrandd.com>
>To: "Org, Scirocco" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
>Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 11:57 AM
>Subject: Foaming filler?
>
>
>>I asked this before and got no awnser.
>> 1) What can be used to seal and replace the monkee s**t that coats the
>> inside of the fenders?
>> 2) Can standard sealing foam (canned) be used to fill in the spaces like
>> the A pillar (instead of the foam block)?
>>
>> Julie
>>
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>> Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
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>
>