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Alleged fastest numbers and poor comments...
Dan,
I can appreciate your frustration. I can relate to it, in terms of what I
do here at the dealership... How many times should I explain why the keys to
the A4 cars are 250.00 plus dollars? Why is it no one looks for their lugbolt
key until they need it? And the biggest one of all, the one that REALLY gets
my ass in a bind is WHY THE F*** DON"T THESE MORONS READ THEIR OWNERS'
MANUAL? A car is the most expensive machine most of us will ever buy, and yet
no one takes the time to do the obvious, learn about it. If folks had an
owners' manual for their house, they would damn sure read that... One quick
way to sum up, and to relate it to the point at hand: Stupid is as stupid
does... Human nature abounds with absolute friggin' stupidity, often... That
said, are folks on here with various abilities, and interests. Now, before I
get lynched, let me underlline that I believe most of the folks on here fall
into the category of ignorant, at least with regards to engineering. Because
of that, but more because of the fact that we all have a shared interest
in 'dubs, I really think that that should be the core reason why we chat. Not
to say that engineering discussions should not come up, quite the opposite.
If they do come up however, I think they should be slanted towards education,
as most folks do not know what you know. And to continue with that thought, I
think we should all be equals here, with the exception of granting those with
unique abilities, the chance to share those with the rest of the group. For
that to be a reality, I think we should also remember that a hundred years
from now, none of this will matter nearly as much as we think it does now.
I get really frustrated about my job sometimes, and perhaps I have vented
some of that frustration towards you. For that, I am sorry. Perhaps you are
suffering from the same maladie? It actually sounds like you and I are
suffering from the same thing, in a way... Anger towards those who are
ignorant and/or stupid (I think we all know the differences between the two).
I do however look forward to learning far more with your observations
and 'gentle' redirecting towards the facts of the matter than without...
No hard feelings...
Regards,
David Utley
Quoting Dan Bubb <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com>:
> David:
> You are, of course, correct. My approach does suck!
> In this particular case I don't know that I have to offer an explanation
> since the equations have
> been presented (Drew's e-mail) and the calculations done (Mark's e-mail) for
> an example close enough
> to Patricks to illustrate the situation.
> Either Patrick's dyno runs are terribly inaccurate (and that may be possible
> since it seems his
> engine should be good for at least 110 whp) or his instruments are terrribly
> inaccurate.
> In either event 138 MPH isn't possible. I've done a spreadsheet that compares
> Patrick's engine power
> every thousand RPM vs. power required to go the calculated speed for that
> RPM. It indicates 122MPH.
> I'll post a link if I can find a place to put it.
> Course the reason I'm such an asshole is that some people seem to think that
> the laws of physics are
> negotiable or don't apply to them when it's far more likely their instruments
> are inaccurate.
> What are the variables here? Cd, Area, Power, Velocity, instrument error.
> Power has been documented by his dyno runs. Cd and Area can be off by 10% and
> cause only a 3%
> change in Velocity. Now what's left? The actual Velocity (not Patrick's
> claim) or Patrick's claimed
> Velocity due to instument error??
> Furthermore, do you know how Cd is determined? It's an empirical number that
> is derived from
> applying the equations in Drew's e-mail to the measured drag of an actual
> car.
> So, all the numbers presented have validity. It's not somebody's wild ass
> guess.
> Why do I get frustrated? Cause I'm an engineer and I know the laws of physics
> are called laws for a
> reason and I get tired of repeating and repeating and repeating when somebody
> is that far off the
> mark.
> Dan
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Utley" <mr.utility@highstream.net>
> To: "Dan Bubb" <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com>
> Cc: "Patrick Bureau" <ats@longcoeur.com>; <marc_scirocco@sympatico.ca>;
> "'scirocco'"
> <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 1:29 PM
> Subject: Alleged fastest numbers and poor comments...
>
>
> > Dan,
> > If one is appointing oneself as the 'truth police', then perhaps one
> ought
> > to demonstrate why one should recieve the job?
> >
> > You have unloaded on me a few times, and some of those times I have
> deserved
> > it. Howeverto be blunt, your approach sucks. You may be bright, you might
> be
> > certified (or certifiable, dunno :-)), but I, nor the other folks on here
> > deserve the tone that you often sling. You told me in a private email
> that
> > you don't have time to reply to every comment that I may throw out on your
> > comments. That is fine, however, if the comment is worth making, then it
> is
> > worth explaining. That is why we are all here, to learn or to educate.
> The
> > comment you offered below seems to indicate that you have less of a desire
> to
> > educate, than to correct. I apologize if my tone here is piss-poor as
> well,
> > but I felt I had to say it...
> >
> > Rant mode disabled...
> >
> > David Utley
> >
> > Quoting Dan Bubb <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com>:
> >
> > > Nice dream!
> > > Puuuuuleeasse stop!!!!!!!!
> > > Get your instruments (tach and speedo) calibrated.
> > > Guys with 16V's making 120-130 whp are getting 130MPH.
> > > Did you read the part about power being proportional to V^3??
> > > To go 10% faster you need 33% more power. You don't have 33% more power
> than
> > > anything but a stock
> > > 1.8 JH. That ought to get you ~120 if you're lucky.
> > > One more thing. If you're actually attaining 6600 RPM at your top speed
> then
> > > you're way past your
> > > power peak and you don't have 102 cause your power is dropping off
> rapidly.
> > > Just look at your dyno
> > > runs.
> > > Hate to be pissy, but wake up.
> > > Dan
> > > just tired of some of the ridiculous claims!
> > >
> >
> >
> > David Utley
> > -----------
> > Cable Volkswagen
> > 405-470-3129
> > 1-800-522-6793
>
>
>
David Utley
-----------
Cable Volkswagen
405-470-3129
1-800-522-6793