Hey, hey, whoah.... (Was: Re: Regret)

[scirocco at vintagewatercooleds.com (Eric S)]

Max Phillips said:
> Eric,
>
> Hey, whoah... easy now....

Nope, sorry, not toning down *my opinion* and a very educated one at that.

> I think you're kind of missing the point (and being abusive for little or
> no reason).  You start off by saying Linux is "eh" to you, but
tphilosophies
> on to call it under-engineered, un-supported crap.  ...consistency?

"eh" was a prelude to my real feelings, as you saw.

> "What kind of Unix can only support 16 *logical* CPUs?"  Huh?  I thought
> we were talking about Linux here, not Unix.  No, they are NOT the same.
> Linux was branched off from Unix code that was made public domain eons
> ago.  They have evolved into very different creatures.

Quite, yet so similar.  System V at the roots, but very different
philosophies.  Lets not get into SunOS vs Solaris either, huge differences
there.  Linux is, and still is, a Unix OS, much as it has evolved (as has
Solaris).

> Somehow the fact that you work with tremendously powerful hardware makes
> Linux crap?  What kind of nonsense is that?

Dude, I'm sorry, but 16 logical CPUs means a max of 8 Hyper Threading
CPUs...thats silly small.  I may have a skewed look at it, considering
that I deal with businesses that find that kind of computing power kids
play, but hey, thats my own skewed opinion.

I have plenty of other opinions about why I don't like Linux (kernel size
of  Kansas, devices all pre-built, performance, memory limitations, etc)
but I just sum it up with: under engineered crap.  Opinions are fun,
aren't they?

> Look, the whole idea behind
> Linux is that it's there for anyone who wants it.  If you don't want it,
> then great.  Don't use it.  If you don't like it because it can't do this
> or is missing that, then do something about it - it's open source!
> Instead of bitching about it's shortcomings, contribute to the community
> and continue to make it a better product.  It's never finished, and it's
> not meant for any one thing.  It's meant to be used wherever you want to
> make it work.

Oh please, don't treat me like I am some moron that has never heard the
GNU philosophy.  Trust me, I've dealt with open source stuff for some
time, some is good, some is ok, some is crappy.  In all cases, support is
lacking and rather untimely, code is FULL of bugs.  Open source is a great
idea, if you don't mind hacking at someone elses terrible code.

> Hey, I love tinkering and learning - whether it's cars or computers, I am
> a mega geek.  And just like I would NEVER vandalize or put-down another
> persons automobile (no matter what I really thought of it), I don't go
> unconstructively slamming people's choice of software.  I'm all for
> constructive criticism and debate, but calling stuff crap all over the
> place is not cool.

Dude, don't like my opinion, don't read it.  Simple as your argument
above, don't like Linux, don't use it.  I have my own reasons for my
opinion, and honestly didn't want to bore the list with all the techincal
reasons Linux sucks...simple as that.  Your choice to hide your opinion
from others, is that, your choice.  I regularly put down other peoples
cars...usually the ones with a big H on the hood and a 10 foot wing. 
Guess your just to nice to ever say anything negative you're thinking?

> Entry and mid level servers are everywhere, and Linux is great for that.
> Not everyone needs supercomputers, you know.

QUITE true.  However, at this point, any Linux box is sub-entry or entry,
no where near mid level.  And I agree, if you are faced with a choice on a
2 CPU sub-entry server, what would I run, Winblows or RedHat?  You better
bet RedHat.

> No O/S is un-hackable, and Linux is no exception.  The only reason Linux
> gets hit less than others is that it's not as much of a target - it's not
> mainstream.  The more popular it gets, the more it will become a problem.
> Linux definitely has a leg up on Windows as far as security goes, though.

Never said anything to the contrary?

> As for being under-engineered, well that's sort of debatable (goes back to
> the whole open source philosophy) but I don't believe it to be true.  It's
> no more under-engineered than anything else out there.  Again, it's open
> source so if you see an engineering problem with it... either fix it, or
> bring to someone's attention who can.

It is man, sorry, but it is.  The kernel is very very unsophisticated and
very very limited it what it can handle.

> Under-supported is one thing that Linux is absolutely NOT.  There is more
> support for Linux than any other OS out there.  When I have a problem with
> Linux, all I have to do is hop on the right IRC, type my issue, and within
> 30 seconds I'm gauranteed to have more responses than I know what to do
> with.  I think it's pretty damn cool that when I have a problem with Linux
> (and believe me, I run into problems), there's a fair chance that the
> person who actually WROTE the code responsible will be the one to answer
> my questions and help me out.  Try getting that kind of support out of
> Microsoft or Sun.

A, attack or compare Sun to Microsoft again, and we have a problem.  I
work for Sun support, and I treat every single customer like they have a
mission critical problem.  Thats the way its done.

B, No need to talk with Product Development directly, cause the fix as
already been found and the patch made at a professional company.

C, What business, with any sort of mission critical server, is going to
get support from a CHAT ROOM.  Dude, you have me ROLLING ON THE FLOOR
right now.  LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.   RedHat has finally made a separate Linux
(Enterprise Linux) and has a professional support staff just for that
version (not the open/free Fedora).  They are going the way of Sun, you
just watch...Linux is going proprietary....why?  Because a business
DEMANDS professional, prompt support.

> Again, your opinion is your opinion and that's cool; however, most of us
> at least try to voice them in a slightly civilized manner.  Otherwise
> you're just going to piss people off and that doesn't lead to anything
> positive.

Whoo hoo!  Pissing off the geeks, I love it! ;-)

> At the end of the day, we're all on this list because we have a common
> bond - we know Sciroccos kick ass, and all other cars are complete and
> total *crap*.   :)  (sorry, couldn't resist!)
>
> Seriously, though - much love to everyone on the list, regardless of your
> daily driver or your operating system.
>
> -Max

Right back at ya Max.

--
Eric - Pissing in everyones Wheaties