16v suddenly cranks slow, won't start

[treed2 at wsu.edu (T. Reed)]

> 1. letting the car idle in a parking lot does not charge a battery (next
> time try driving it 20 mins on the hwy at 70mph)

True, but it does add some charge. There have been times before where my
battery was a little stale from sitting for a month or sth like that and
running the car for a few minutes helped it start back up without a jump.

Besides.. the battery was not discharged. Below 12 volts is discharged.
True, it should be closer to 12.7 or even 13-something volts. But 12.2
should at least turn the car over at a reasonable speed. And the battery
voltage was not dropping more than 0.1 V after turning the car over again
and again. If it was slipping down to 11.5 volts or something like that -
then that would indicate that it needed to be more seriously recharged.

> 2. sounds like your having a possible starter issue here.

Perhaps, but it smells more electrical. The starter is just turning over
very very slowly; there's no grinding noise or smoke pouring out of the
starter.

Also I think 'sudden death' of starters is rather rare. IME, Dub starters
tend to last a lot longer than aftermarket GM garbage, this one is a Bosch
factory rebuild (I think it even has a warranty).

The death of my previous starter was very gradual, until it caught the
wiring on fire when it jammed in the 'on' position in rush hour traffic.

> 3. when the car actually run, how much voltage your getting at the
> alternator ?

14.5 V

I'd be suspecting the charging system as much as the starting one (I
redid the wiring for both at the same time.. a few yrs ago), but like I
said at least the battery appears to be (not fully, but mostly) charged.

-Toby

>
> ATS - Patrick Bureau -  85 2L, 102.5 whp, 121 ft/lbs torque
> Email : ats@longcoeur.com - Web site : http://ats.longcoeur.com
> AIM: texasscirocco - Yahoo: atsgtx - ICQ: 32918816 - MSN: atsgtx@hotmail.com
> 1975, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81S, 82 and 86 scirocco's coming soon!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org
> [mailto:scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org] On Behalf Of T. Reed
> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 1:29 AM
> To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> Subject: 16v suddenly cranks slow, won't start
>
> Grrr
>
> Just when I thought my car was going to make it a month or so without
> breaking, this happens.
>
> The car had been starting reasonably quick.. not immediately but after about
> 1 crank cycle. About a day ago, I drove it to the store, parked, went in,
> came back out and tried to start it again. The starter just went wuH, wuH,
> wuH slowly and didn't kick over the engine. If I held the key at start it
> would begin to slow down even more. As a quick fix I tried popping off the
> battery terminals and putting them back on, hoping it might free some
> corrosion. Nope; had to get help from a passerby to get the car push-started
> (I was in a perfectly flat parking lot).
>
> Got home, parked, still wouldn't start.
>
> So today I popped the hood and tried to jump start it with a spare car
> battery - didn't help. Checked battery voltage: 12.20V
>
> I tried attaching the jumper cables to the battery and directly to the
> starter + terminal and metal case to bypass/augment the in-car wiring. No
> help.
>
> I pulled the battery terminals and cleaned minor corrosion off them with a
> dremel and a wirewheel. Then I pulled my chassis ground bolt and cleaned all
> the lugs on it as well.
>
> Measured the resistance from battery (-) to the radiator bracket as 0.2
> ohms. Measured the resistance from battery (+) to the starter (+) terminal
> and it was 0.1-0.2 ohms. The 8 ga wire is relatively new and in good shape.
> Likewise for the ground strap.
>
> Nothing was working so I push-started the car and let it idle for about 25
> minutes to charge the battery. I parked it on top of a hill and turned off
> the engine. It started with the starter after some hesitation. I figured:
> okay, just a low battery. Parked and let it idle some more, then turned it
> off and ran inside to grab my cell phone. Got in and tried to start it:
> wuh---wuh---wuh again.
>
> Hooked up a voltmeter so I could watch the volts as I was cranking but
> freakishly it started and I decided to drive around some more. Well, long
> story short I got in to a muddy driveway and the engine stalled. I spent
> 15 minutes turning the car around by pushing it back and forth and turning
> the steering wheel. Push started it on the way out of the driveway and drove
> back home. What a pain; I'll never do that again.
>
> It has only started twice by the starter since I monkeyed with everything..
> and both times it was very "strained". It has not-started countless times
> since then, however. So the problem is far from being cured or intermittent.
>
> So here's where I'm at:
> - the battery seems to have sufficient power. (Also, it was replaced about
>   2 months ago.)
>
> - the battery terminals and chassis ground have been cleaned of corrosion
>
> - the starter (+) terminal looks okay. The starter has its own aux. ground
>   strap at the lower starter bolt.. it might be slightly dirty or oily but
>   I didn't have the tools handy to pull it in daylight today.
>
> - hooking up a second battery seemed to have no effect
>
> - nothing I did above seemed to have any effect whatsoever
>
> - the starter is a bosch reman and was replaced ~17 months ago. It has
>   been starting fine (as long as there is sufficient battery power).
>
> - stock battery/starter wiring has been replaced ~2-3 years ago with
>   8 ga copper with crimped ends. (i intend to solder new ones soon; but
>   its a pain to solder something so big)
>
>
> So what the heck?! I'm fresh outta ideas unless my starter has somehow died
> on me.
>
> -Toby
>
> _______________________________________________
> Scirocco-l mailing list
> Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
>
>
>