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weird rocco happenings (part deux)




Allyn.
The load reduction relay cuts all the extra stuff off during starting.
stuff that gets powered is wired to IIRC bus 15. in the lectrical 
diagram.

Basically it cust power to..
all accessories (PW, PL, radio)
non essential bits. like headlights.

stuff that I know is powered. 
IGBT (ingition modules)
Jetronic box
Knock box/Ignition controler. (thereby the hall sender)
Fuel pump relay.

but know your describing your ignition switch as doing some funny crap.
Remember in electronics what fails first.. the associated MOVING parts.
Check the WOT switch. it could be doing wierd things to the idle. check 
the actual ignition switch.

check to see if the ignition module is attached to the firewallstill 
needs metal contact for cooling .. not for grounding. I know ran the GRM 
car with out it for a few minutes.

other stuff inthe CIS system that *could* be sensitive. the crappy old 
electrical connectors. 

now you say that it runs like complete crap on decel. hows your rear MM..
easy way to check if the bolts are out of the MM is have somebody drive it 
around with the hood off and watch the motor. if it moves around, well 
then. 

also, have you thought about checking the physical timing during crappy 
running. Dont forget about keyway shears. 
decel, it tips the timing a bit off, stop the car, start it it loads the 
system a different direction. causing it to line back up.

also can somebodysource me the page for 16v exhaust valve disposal. I need 
to 100% verify that they are sodium filled.
brian


 On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Allyn wrote:

> ok, so last weekend i did the gunk engine brite all over the engine bay 
> treatment, followed by hosing the crap out of the engine bay (with engine 
> running), hoping to agitate whatever fault there may be. not a single 
> flinch, despite drenching everything with the nozzle set on 'jet'. i did 
> some cheezy checks of the idle switch (note: if its stuck open, it makes the 
> idle high, not low), and some other under-hood checks. came up empty.
> 
> ...and everything was fine all of this week (i drive the rieger 30 mins to / 
> from work daily).
> 
> then today i got the same cut-out. happened while coasting in gear (again). 
> hit gas, nothing. cycled neutral, attempting roll-start - nothing. cycled 
> key - voala, back in business. 10 secs later it does it again, this time i 
> stop and restart engine - starts again, no problem. it does it once more, 
> but this time as im coasting with it floored, it pops back to life out of 
> nowhere.
> 
> i deduce the following on the rest of the trip home:
> - happens while decelerating - possibly electrical in engine bay caused by 
> engine torquing forward, or something electrical that is sensitive to 
> deceleration. (problem never happens while on throttle, no matter how much 
> throttle - trust me :).
> - comes back after messing with key - possibly something with ignition 
> switch.
> 
> after pulling into the driveway i turn the engine off, then turn the key 
> back to ignition and slowly figit with it towards the off direction. i hear 
> a click come from the fuse panel, but the ignition is still on. turn key cw 
> again (still in 'on' position), and get another click. i can now cycle the 
> key back and forth about 10 degrees and i'm causing 'some' click from the 
> fuse panel. i figure this is my problem, so i start the engine again and do 
> the same cycling of the key. the clicks continue from the fuse panel, but it 
> has no effect on engine idle at all (weird, i thought it was the fuel pump 
> relay that was clicking). turn off engine and fiddle with key while checking 
> relays. turns out its the load reduction relay. i'll admit, im weak on what 
> load reduction is supposed to do, but i can say now it has no effect on the 
> idle. question is, could it result in engine cut while driving?
> 
> any other ideas, please dont hesitate to throw in your $0.02
> Al
> 
> Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
> 87 Rieger Scirocco GTO 2.0 16v (daily driver, 200k, rocco #6)
> 86 Kamei Twin 16V Turbo Scirocco GTX (30% complete, rocco #7)
> 86.5 Occo 16v Trailer (rocco #8)
> 90 Passat GL 16V (the wifes new daily, 200k)
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Allyn" <amalventano@sc.rr.com>
> To: "scirocco list" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 6:55 PM
> Subject: weird rocco happenings
> 
> 
> > ok, so im on the way back from kill bill 2 (most excellent, btw).
> >
> > take 26 home, and put the rieger into a 1.1g drift along the exit ramp
> > (right bank).
> > i bask in the sounds of sliding kumho and occasional per-clunks of loose
> > objects finding their way to the driver side of the beast.
> > end of ramp, no power, absolutely none. no warning lights (still in gear,
> > engine still turning). as i am slowing, i figure i caught some water in 
> > the
> > fuel suction, but this is unlikely (right turn, not left, and i am at 3/4
> > tank, and i took care of that water problem weeks ago).
> > i coast further, figuring whatever it is will pass. i keep the gas 
> > planted.
> > still nothing.
> > hit clutch and let it die. cycle key. start. cranks right up.
> > drive 2 blocks to turn right into neighborhood. hit clutch as i slow for 
> > the
> > turn. engine dies. i notice the sound of a relay clicking a couple of 
> > times
> > as i cycle the clutch to try and roll-start. my guess is it was the fuel
> > pump relay responding to ignition pulses (an expected action).
> > roll-start successful as i accelerate out of the turn.
> > go couple more blocks, slow for left turn, engine dies again. roll start 
> > out
> > of turn - again successful.
> > carefully make last turn to house street. this time i stay on the gas and
> > keep it in gear. no issues, but the engine doesnt 'feel' as happy as it
> > usually is.
> > i carefully keep the gas on as i drop into neutral and e-brake to a stop 
> > in
> > the driveway. once stationary, i slowly let off gas to see what the deal 
> > is.
> > idle slows to a very slow crawl. its a stumbly idle. firing on all
> > cylinders, no missing at all, but its a slower idle (~600), and its 
> > stumbly
> > because of it.
> > pop hood, everything looks good. do the obligatory check of the idle speed
> > set screw - right where i left it. wiggle various connectors, no effect. 
> > do
> > quick cursory checks for vacuum leaks - nothing. plug wires look good. no
> > leaks anywhere. wife comes out to see whats up. i chat while doing further
> > inspecting. finally i end up grabbing the throttle body and give it a 
> > couple
> > of good blips. after the revs, engine returns to a perfect purring idle. i
> > mess with it more, but cannot get it to return to its crappy idle.
> >
> > notes:
> > - first time it died, i believe i had tach indication, and i believe the
> > fuel pump was running, yet engine did not return to running condition
> > depsite coasting at 4k rpm with ignition still on. despite this, it 
> > started
> > just fine after the engine was allowed to stop.
> > - cause is likely linked to what made the idle crappy, but that doesnt 
> > make
> > sense.
> > - it appears the fault is causing the low idle speed, and its also causing
> > undershoot of idle if returning from revs, resulting in engine stall.
> >
> > ideas?
> >
> > thx in advance for pondering / suggestions
> > Al
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
> > 
> 
> 
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-- 
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Brian 
88 16v $2004 GRM challenge car http://www.grmotorsports.com
84 0v Next years car? mid engine... maybe we'll see
82 0v Black 16v kit --parts
82 2.0L Topless bunny -- Knock Ignition and bigger clutch. next.
90 90q20v doing daily driver duty. 
91 VFR750F everybody needs a 11-12 sec vehicle.

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