balancing.

[drew at scirocco.cs.uoguelph.ca (Drew MacPherson)]

David, if your car is getting noticeably lower mileage with a lightened 
flywheel, it is most likely as Ron indicated, because your foot has 
assimilated the weight removed from the flywheel.

I have read, and I'm not buying your arguments.

Drew

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 mr.utility@highstream.net wrote:

> Drew, 
> 
> Dude...  You didn't read it, or if you did, you did not understand it...  Now 
> regardless if you have read that or nor, read this-----------------------------
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Quoting Drew MacPherson <drew@scirocco.cs.uoguelph.ca>:
> 
> > 
> > We did read it - and the heavy flywheel has NOTHING to do with diesels
> > getting better mileage.  Zip.  Nada.  Zero.  Not even a small part.
> 
> I see...  If it does have nothing to do with a Diesel, then you are saying it 
> does not affect gas mpg either?  And you obviously disagree with my point, do 
> you have any reason other than those that have been offered, or are you 
> basically saying, "Nyuh unh!" as a kid on a playground might? 
> 
>   That
> > rotating mass takes fuel to rotate - the large the mass, the more fuel it
> > takes.  ALthough a big flywheel is pretty much a necessity, it's not going
> > to improve economy any by having one.
> > 
> 
> I did NOT say having a bigger one will improve economy...  I was talking about 
> a STOCK one...  WHether you believe it or not, I have had that happen, and ATS 
> has as well...  Whether or not you agree with it, I have had it happen...  It 
> is up to you to agrue with facts...  I will agree that it does go against 
> common sense, but it is true...
> 
> 
> > Drew
> > 
> > On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 mr.utility@highstream.net wrote:
> > 
> > > Re-read it, people...  I said, PART of the reason, not THE reason...  Jesus
> > 
> > > Christ...  This IS the only medium we have to communicate through, you have
> > to 
> > > read it....
> > > 
> > > David
> > > 
> > > Quoting Drew MacPherson <drew@scirocco.cs.uoguelph.ca>:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Dan's on the money- diesels get better mileage because there's more 
> > > > energy in diesel fuel AND the diesel engine is more efficient.  On top of
> > 
> > > > that, VW diesel flywheels are pretty much the same as their gas 
> > > > counterparts, except that they have a O degree TDC timing mark.
> > > > 
> > > > Big diesels have big flywheels because they're big-ass engines with long
> > 
> > > > strokes and low idles, and as Dan said the inertia in the rotating 
> > > > flywheel keeps the engine idling.  Large, low revving gasoline motors 
> > > > (such as one might find in an antique tractor, for example) also had
> > large 
> > > > flywheels for the same reason.
> > > > 
> > > > Drew
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Dan Bubb wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > >   Do you know how heavy a Diesel flywheel is in comparison to a gas 
> > > > > >flywheel?  Part of the reason is that they have a higher mpg is
> > because of
> > > > the 
> > > > > >higher inertia they have once up to speed... 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I disagree. Diesels get better mileage due to the higher energy
> > content
> > > > > of diesel fuel and the more efficient diesel cycle. The heavier
> > flywheel
> > > > > is required because of the significantly higher CR of a diesel engine.
> > > > > More energy/inertia is required to get the engine through the
> > > > > compression stroke and maintain decent idle quality doing so.
> > > > > 
> > > > > >  The reasons you cited for having weight on the flywheel are good
> > > > > > reasons as
> > > > > >well, but they are not the only ones...
> > > > > 
> > > > > Sorry, your original statement that a heavy flywheel would increase
> > > > > highway fuel mileage implied that was the Primary reason for a heavy
> > > > > flywheel which is incorrect.
> > > > > 
> > > > > >David
> > > > > 
> > > > > >PS  And while I read the Vortex quite a bit, I weigh that against
> > hands-on
> > > > 
> > > > > >experience, as well as reading good technical sources (read that 
> > > > > >as 'accredited'), as well as long conversations with a good friend of
> > 13
> > > > years 
> > > > > >who has been a mechanic for almost 40 years...  The one thing I will
> > > > promise 
> > > > > >each and every one of you is if you can prove me wrong, I will admit
> > it, 
> > > > > >period...  I don't know it all, nor do I pretend to (hopefully) :-)  I
> > can
> > > > 
> > > > > >only ask that if you do not agree/understand, please ask questions... 
> > I
> > > > have 
> > > > > >not insulted anyone here, nor will I throw jabs at someone, even if I
> > 
> > > > > >disagree, but especially if I do not understand...  I am here to
> > learn,
> > > > and to 
> > > > > >share.  I thought that was that this list was for...  Did I
> > misundestand?
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Ya know, I'm an engineer and I've spent way too much time thinking
> > about
> > > > and working on cars. Maybe, I'm overly concerned about trying to help
> > make
> > > > the Scirocco list technically correct and, hopefully, a huge step up on
> > some
> > > > of the laughable statements made on Vortex.
> > > > > 
> > > > > But, whatever. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Scirocco-l mailing list
> > > > > Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > > > http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > -- 
> > > > /=============================================\
> > > > |  84 Wolfsburg Edition TurboDiesel Scirocco  |
> > > > |    http://scirocco.cs.uoguelph.ca/gtd       |
> > > > \=============================================/
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > /=============================================\
> > |  84 Wolfsburg Edition TurboDiesel Scirocco  |
> > |    http://scirocco.cs.uoguelph.ca/gtd       |
> > \=============================================/
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
/=============================================\
|  84 Wolfsburg Edition TurboDiesel Scirocco  |
|    http://scirocco.cs.uoguelph.ca/gtd       |
\=============================================/