The mathematics of the 8V vs. 16V problem

[roccit_53 at hotmail.com (C Boyko)]

Well thanks for nibbling, and as I suspected, the sense of humour required 
when my first post was read is missing! I was KIDDING about the math, ya 
know, tongue buried well in cheek?

I just thought it as a funny coincidence that, as predicted, Klaus made 
exactly half the horsepower of the headache. (and I'd love it even more if 
my 16V had double the torque of my 8V, that would give it about 20 more foot 
pounds) . Also, for the record, the shit eating grin is on my face in BOTH 
cars, and my main compliant with Klaus is suspension and tires, not engine, 
he clips along just fine, though more power is in the plans when that money 
tree gets established in my back yard. (big surprise, right?)

Seriously, why the hell does everything have to be so damn serious all the 
time? Oh Adrian, congrats on the upcoming "project", get your sleep now...

Don't worry, shortly I'll have a series ofserious,  tedious tech questions, 
time to put them away and fix all the stuff that's broken soon.
Cathy

>From: "Adrian" <adrian.culda@sympatico.ca>
>To: <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
>Subject: RE: The mathematics of the 8V vs. 16V problem
>Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:56:01 -0700
>
>Wow .. hehehe ..
>I guess this one got everyone busting out pens and pads along with the
>calculators :)
>
>I wonder after thi who will pick on Josh's Injector size :P
>
>Adrian C.
>Project Scirocco R2.oT - "The Turbocharged 16Valves of Fire Breathing
>Fury"
>( 2.0L 16V T66 )
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org
>[mailto:scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org] On Behalf Of Adrian
>Sent: October 20, 2003 7:12 PM
>To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>Subject: RE: The mathematics of the 8V vs. 16V problem
>
>Well here is my non-biased opinion, engines are engines.
>
>Doesn’t really matter how many valves it has (I seen engines having 1,
>2, 3, 4, 5 and even 6 valves for each cylinder!!!), it still performs
>the same task: Takes the gas, burns it and turns that thermo-chemical
>energy and turns it into mechanical energy. But what really matters is
>how much air can flow through it!
>
>As we all know engines are like big air pumps. The more air you can get
>into it the more power it will make. So here is the scientific aspect of
>it...
>
>Air Capacity (in CFM) = ((CID * RPM) ÷ 3456) * VE
>
>Where a 2 valves per cylinder engines, use a VE of .8-.85 at torque peak
>and .7-.75 at power peak and 4 valves per cylinder engines, use a VE of
>.9-.95 at torque peak and .85-.9 at power peak.
>
>To find out Displacement in CID = # Cyls * 0.7854 * bore * bore * stroke
>Or you can convert CC to CID -> CID = CC*061037
>
>If you want to get the results in Lbs/min then -> Lbs/min = CFM * 0.069
>
>The pressure ratio is simply the pressure in compared to the pressure
>out of the turbocharger. The pressure in is usually atmospheric
>pressure, but may be slightly lower if the intake system before the
>turbo is restrictive, the inlet pressure could be higher than
>atmospheric if there is more than 1 turbocharger in series. In that case
>the inlet let pressure will be the outlet pressure of the turbo before
>it.
>
>Injector Sizing
>lbs/hr = ((BSFC / #Cylinders) * HP / Injector Duty Cycle
>
>Brake Specific Fuel Consumption is normally (lb/HP x hr)
>     0.42 BSFC - Race Engine
>     0.47 BSFC - Hi Performance Engine
>     0.52 BSFC - Stock or with Light Modifications Engine
>     0.57 BSFC - Supercharged / Turbo Charged Engine
>
>Injector Flow Rate Conversion
>CC/Min = LBS/HR * 9.71
>LBS/HR = CC/min * 0.103
>
>BTW Most Injector burst pressures are at 125 PSI.
>
>The density of air also varies with its temperature. A cubic foot of
>cold air weighs more than a cubic foot of hot air. A round average for
>airflow vs. hp is 1.5 to 1.6 cubic feet per minute for each hp
>developed.
>
>So as we can see here the more flow the more power the engine will
>produce.
>Sorry for the Long post but someone got to put an end to this.
>Each engine has its advantages and its disadvantages.
>
>If anyone might have any other concerns or questions please email me.
>I used this as a Guide to Build my engine that is about to be completed.
>I more information regarding engine builds and operation.
>
>Thank you, for reading this and taking your time to understand where im
>standing at in this 8V Vs 16V Feud.
>
>Have a Good Night.
>
>Adrian C.
>Project Scirocco R2.oT - "The Turbocharged 16Valves of Fire Breathing
>Fury"
>( 2.0L 16V T66 )
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org
>[mailto:scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org] On Behalf Of C Boyko
>Sent: October 19, 2003 6:53 AM
>To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>Subject: The mathematics of the 8Vvs16V problem
>
>This is a preliminary post resulting from my dyno yesterday, and I
>though
>I'd better post it, since this is such a popular topic for discussion. I
>
>believe this should lay to rest forever the 16V vs 8V discussion...(as
>if)
>
>Hypothesis:
>That doubling the number of valves doubles the horsepower
>
>Method and all that crap: Toss my two cars on the dyno
>
>Observations:
>1987 16V 132.8 hp to the wheels
>1979 8V 66.6 hp to the wheels
>
>Analysis and Conclusions:
>2^3 = 8  (or 6 in certain circles, when used in probability questions)
>2^4 = 16
>
>2^4/2=8, or 16/2=8
>132.8/2= damn close to 66.6
>
>Next Experiment:
>Toss a 20 V on the dyno....WTF, over 300? Well, now we need a formula I
>guess...
>
>
>Seriously, dyno day was fun as usual, and after all that tuning (with
>Klaus
>making the day's low, and Josh C's red beast making the high)
>Since Klaus was supposed to have 76 at the crank according to the
>owner's
>manual (and you lose a bit getting that to the ground) , 66.6 (though a
>bit
>evil sounding) is damn fine for a car with 171000 miles on the engine
>(just
>nicely broken in). I guess there is even a picture with his needle
>buried,
>despite the fact that you could go have lunch while he got to redline.
>(see,
>there is that time component in the hp formula...)
>A few surprises, but most dynoed about where they figured they'd be.
>
>I'll post more about the weekend later, but that should get the flames
>fanned...
>cathy, resident stirrer of the poo
>
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