OT: VW busses & such

[thejester69 at earthlink.net (thejester69@earthlink.net)]

> Okay, this 81 westie is for sale near my apt for $500. No real rust issues, though
> something is seeping in the engine area (no puddles, just seeping). Inside is decent,
> headliner is torn and seats are shot, but stove and fridge and mattresses are there.
> Says it needs brake and exhaust work, though I've only looked at it, not heard it
> run. I am pretty sure I can snag it for $300. However, there's a late 60s bus that
> appears to have been abandoned in the same parking lot. I can potentially get it
> for a little paperwork and like $25. Also has pop-up top, but not sure about interior
> as it has curtains. A little rusty, mostly surface. 

> Are both these vehicles out of my league to work on? 
Nah, the bus is easier to work on than the vanagon, but neither one is impossible. That being said, both are older cars and will need more regular maintenance and work than a toyota. If you arent commited to learning and trying to do most everything yourself they will probably bankrupt you from trips to service stations. Learn what makes them tick (no more complicated than a big lawn mower) and they will reward you with years of trouble free service (moreso for the bus IMHO, but others have good luck with vanagons.)

So, in a nutshell: anyone can fix one but you have to be mechanically inclined, committed to learning how to do for yourself, and stubborn, heh. Again, if you have no inclination or ability with mechanical stuff it will get expensive.

> Any reason to specifically avoid one or the other? 

Well, here is the 411 on that. the 81 westy has a type4 motor, more expensive to fix, but once fixed it lasts longer. However, it has a mainly obsolete type of FI, can be worked on but hard to find a mechanic that knows the stuff any more. That being said, I sold an 83 aircooled westy with a blown motor for $1200. If it runs at all it is a STEAL at $500. worth twice that in parts if you had a place to part it out. (but if it isn't rusty do the world a favor by either passing on it or passing it on to a loving home.)

In a nutshell, he t4 engine is a lot more difficult to deal with, and pretty much any vanagon part will cost 2-10X the bus equivlaent. Just because it runs doesn't mean it wont need expensive engine work, if it runs and drives well, the worst case is that It would need new heads @300 each, so $600 of work would get you reliable. If it doesnt run and drive welll a rebuilt can cost $3k. That being said, the T4 is the most powerful and reliable of VW's engines, just mroe complex and costly, a good rule of thumb is t4 engine parts cost 4X the bug equivalent, but last 4x as long, heh.

 now, on to the bus:

your best bet for easy reliable cheap transport is the bus most likely, with a few caveats. "late 60's" doesnt narrow it down much, the two biggest factors on wether the bus is worth it are 1) structural rot, you say it has none, but to be sure get under there with a screwdriver and poke at anything framelike make sure it doesnt disintergrate. 2) what year is it.

here is the breakdown on bus years for a layperson.
1950-1963 these are old, also known as split screen as they have 2 flat windshields i have one they are fun but some parts are hard to find, they are geared badly, and the most unsafe. That being said, I love mine(1961), heh. It is always breaking on me for some reason. Wearing a seatbelt is almost more unsafe than not as the nose has a tendency to crumple in and crush your feet in an accident. Almost better to be thrown clear.

1964-1967 the same windshield arrangement as the earlier ones, but a better transaxle, more safety features, better (but still scarce) parts availability. These are the best drivers of the splitwindow era, nice campers.

1968-1971 IMHO these are the BEST years for someone just getting into busses. The splitwindows have something special, but this one is the workhorse. You still have the dead simple bug engine, a more durable transmission, GOOD impact protection in crashes, if you wear a seatbelt you will be safe (i've seen these T-bone cars runnign stoplights @ 40mph, no intrusion into passenger compartment, no injuries. These have one big roundish windshield and are called bay or bubble windows. The creme de la creme to most is 1971. These are the only year to come stock with the bug engine and front disc brakes. That being said, the previous years are pretty much the same save the difference in brakes. Buy one of these and spend a few weekends to replace all the brakes (incl. master cylinder) wheel bearings and put in a new engine and you can get many trouble free miles. I have put 60,000+ miles on my 71 since I got it in 96 or 97, and it has been the most reliable car I have ever owned BECAUSE I replaced everything mechanical when I bought it. 

1972-1979 these are pretty much the same bus as the 68-71 but have the same "type4" engine as the vanagon. If you pay for a professionally rebuilt engine from AVP or another reputable vendor and get a good set of dual carbs, these can be trouble free. Center mounted weber progressives are problematic, and the stock carbs are obsolete. The later models have the same FI as the vanagon, workable but rather obscure.

All that being said, I am biased. I love busses, I own about 8, and used to be president of our local VW bus club. I have put over 100k miles on the things. So, my choice would be the bus, a vanagon doesnt speak to me and tell me I must go to the garage and fix it, but my best friend loves vanagons, so that is just a personal decision. As to the value of the bus: if it has the two windscreens and is not rusty, a complete nonrunning example can fetch from $500-$10,000 depending on model. If it has the one bay window, nonrunning campers go for around $500-$1000 depending on year model, condition etc.

So, pic the one that looks to you like a puppydog that needs a home, get it so every moving part is in good shape and you can have many trouble free miles. 

take care,

Jester

P.S. Sorry for the length of the post, also this is jester at westfailure as well, i am having server problems and this is a temp. e-mail addy.