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interesting coolant stuff



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Just pulled out a gallon of DEX-COOL (not used in the 'roc), it only =
says "ethylene glycol based".  BUT, it meets silicate-free and =
phosphate-free requirements.  (This is Havoline Extended Life, DEX-COOL =
GM approved) =20
You can be sure there are lots of unnamed additives in all these =
anti-freeze formulas. =20
What's the confusion?  Use green in the Scirocco.  Use orange/pink in =
your 2003 Suburban.  :)  Easy?

Larry
sandiego16v
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Rick Kellner=20
  To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org=20
  Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 3:29 PM
  Subject: RE: interesting coolant stuff


  I just did some ingredient reading off of coolant labels.=20

  One brand of the green stuff; Ethylene glycol & Diethylene glycol. =20

  Another brand of the green stuff; Ethylene glycol & Diethylene glycol =
& Dipotassium phosphate & Silicates. =20

  Finally, the pink stuff; Ethylene glycol & Diethylene glycol & =
Silicates.

  =20

  Did you notice that the green one and the pink one had the same =
ingredients? One pink and one green had Silicates.  One green one did =
not.   Are you confused?  I am.

  =20

  Rick Kellner.

  =20

  -----Original Message-----
  From: scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org =
[mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org] On Behalf Of Euroroc II
  Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 3:16 PM
  To: Dan Smith; rfkellner@snet.net; scirocco-l@scirocco.org
  Subject: Re: interesting coolant stuff

  =20

  Might be right about the tag, but I do remember that one type is not =
recommended for the plastic to aluminum bonding...

  -Raffi

  At 10:57 AM 3/24/2003 -0800, Dan Smith wrote:




  Pretty sure the cap says 'Use only VW brand phosphate free coolant' or =
something similiar.=20

  Dan=20

   Euroroc II <flaatr@yahoo.com> wrote:=20



  All I remember is not to use one of the glycol's, polypropylene or=20
  polyethylene, one is safe and one is bad...

  Bad is defined as it does not protect the bonding of the aluminum core =
to=20
  the plastic ends on the radiator.

  Been using the blue stuff (look another color) from the dealer. I =
think the=20
  warning tag that most people hove lost, the one that goes around the =
filler=20
  cap on the expansion tank, warns what is safe to use. I'll look at =
mine and=20
  get back to you.

  -RGK-

  At 12:09 PM 3/24/2003 -0500, rfkellner@snet.net wrote:
  >It seems like we have run the full gamut of coolant opinions. From
  >straight H2O to never use the green to never use the pink/orange. Can
  >anyone point to some industry papers or independent studies?
  >
  >Also, for someone that wants to run straight H2O aren't there plain
  >additives to inhibit corrosion? If so, what is in these products?
  >
  >Thanks, Rick K. Soon to change water pump and coolant.....
  >
  >Original Message:
  >-----------------
  >From: ian Butler ian@bluemoon.hplx.net
  >Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:03:55 -0500 (EST)
  >To: tberk@mindspring.com, scirocco-l@scirocco.org
  >Subject: Re: interesting coolant stuff
  >
  >
  >On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, T Berk wrote:
  >
  > > It's SILICA that is abrasive in old style coolant, it rubs seal to
  > > death and is prob. the main cause (right up there with stiff belts
  > > drawn too tight) of weepy waterpumps.
  >
  > > Check the label of the orange stuff next time; silica free. Prob.
  > > partly the reason the orange stuff seems to creep out around hoses =
and
  > > cause that scabby crust as well.
  >
  >I believe Dex and other long-life coolants have special detergents =
that,
  >more or less like synthetic, have a tendency to "clean things up", =
which can
  >involve removing gunk that's keeping the system from leaking.
  >
  >More importantly, though, green antifreeze contains phosphates, and
  >phosphates eat aluminum. It's not a big deal in inline cars like
  >Sciroccos, but it's a *huge* deal in Vanagons, where coolant sits in =
the
  >heads, seeps under the gaskets, and pits/rusts its way right through =
to the
  >ground. Such a serious and expensive problem on those that a lot of
  >prospective Vanagon buyers won't touch a bus with green coolant in =
it.
  >
  >It hasn't concerned me enough to immediately replace the green =
coolant in my
  >'roc (not that I've had the stupid thing since November anyway.. =
grumble)
  >but it's about due for a flush, and it'll get Dex when I fill it =
again.
  >
  > > btw- Yep, water conducts better than coolant, 70/30 water to =
coolant
  > > seems like a good nominal minimum.
  >
  >I believe 70/30 is minimum and 30/70 is maximum. Supposedly if you go =
above
  >30/70, thYahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on =
your desktop!=20


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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just pulled out a gallon of DEX-COOL =
(not used in=20
the 'roc), it </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>only says "ethylene =
glycol=20
based".&nbsp; BUT, it meets silicate-free and phosphate-free =
requirements.&nbsp;=20
(This is Havoline Extended Life, DEX-COOL GM approved)&nbsp; =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You can be sure there are lots of =
unnamed additives=20
in all these anti-freeze formulas.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What's the confusion?&nbsp; Use green =
in the=20
Scirocco.&nbsp; Use orange/pink in your&nbsp;2003 Suburban.&nbsp; =
:)&nbsp;=20
Easy?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Larry</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>sandiego16v</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:rfkellner@snet.net"; title=3Drfkellner@snet.net>Rick =
Kellner</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:scirocco-l@scirocco.org"=20
  title=3Dscirocco-l@scirocco.org>scirocco-l@scirocco.org</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 24, 2003 =
3:29=20
PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: interesting =
coolant=20
  stuff</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I just did =
some=20
  ingredient reading off of coolant labels. =
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DGramE><FONT color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">One brand =
of the=20
  green stuff; Ethylene glycol &amp; Diethylene=20
  glycol.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=3Dnavy face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; =
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DGramE><FONT color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Another =
brand of the=20
  green stuff; Ethylene glycol &amp; Diethylene glycol &amp; Dipotassium =

  phosphate &amp; Silicates.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; =
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DGramE><FONT color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Finally, =
the pink=20
  stuff; Ethylene glycol &amp; Diethylene glycol &amp;=20
  Silicates.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=3Dnavy face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Did you =
notice that=20
  the green one and the pink one had the same ingredients? One pink and =
one=20
  green had Silicates.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; =
</SPAN>One green=20
  one did not.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN>Are =
you=20
  confused?<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>I=20
  am.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Rick=20
  Kellner.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DTahoma =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original=20
  Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>=20
  scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org [mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org] =
<B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Euroroc =
II<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, March 24, 2003 =
3:16=20
  PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
  </SPAN></FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dan=20
  Smith</SPAN></FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN =

  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">; rfkellner@snet.net;=20
  </SPAN></FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">scirocco-l@scirocco.org</SPAN></FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: interesting =
coolant=20
  stuff</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Might be right about the tag, =
but I do=20
  remember that one type is not recommended for the plastic to aluminum=20
  bonding...<BR><BR>-Raffi<BR><BR>At 10:57 AM 3/24/2003 -0800,=20
  </SPAN></FONT><st1:PersonName>Dan Smith</st1:PersonName> wrote:<BR><BR =

  style=3D"mso-special-character: line-break"><![if =
!supportLineBreakNewLine]><BR=20
  style=3D"mso-special-character: line-break"><![endif]><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Pretty sure the cap says 'Use =
only VW=20
  brand phosphate free coolant' or something similiar. <BR><BR>Dan=20
  <BR><BR>&nbsp;<B><I><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Euroroc II=20
  &lt;flaatr@yahoo.com&gt;</SPAN></I></B> wrote: <BR=20
  style=3D"mso-special-character: line-break"><![if =
!supportLineBreakNewLine]><BR=20
  style=3D"mso-special-character: =
line-break"><![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">All I remember is not to use =
one of the=20
  glycol's, polypropylene or <BR>polyethylene, one is safe and one is=20
  bad...<BR><BR>Bad is defined as it does not protect the bonding of the =

  aluminum core to <BR>the plastic ends on the radiator.<BR><BR>Been =
using the=20
  blue stuff (look another color) from the dealer. I think the =
<BR>warning tag=20
  that most people hove lost, the one that goes around the filler =
<BR>cap on the=20
  expansion tank, warns what is safe to use. I'll look at mine and =
<BR>get back=20
  to you.<BR><BR>-RGK-<BR><BR>At 12:09 PM 3/24/2003 -0500, =
rfkellner@snet.net=20
  wrote:<BR>&gt;It seems like we have run the full gamut of coolant =
opinions.=20
  From<BR>&gt;straight H2O to never use the green to never use the =
pink/orange.=20
  Can<BR>&gt;anyone point to some industry papers or independent=20
  studies?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Also, for someone that wants to run straight =
H2O=20
  aren't there plain<BR>&gt;additives to inhibit corrosion? If so, what =
is in=20
  these products?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Thanks, Rick K. Soon to change water =
pump and=20
  coolant.....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Original=20
  Message:<BR>&gt;-----------------<BR>&gt;From: ian Butler=20
  ian@bluemoon.hplx.net<BR>&gt;Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:03:55 -0500=20
  (EST)<BR>&gt;To: tberk@mindspring.com,=20
  =
</SPAN></FONT><st1:PersonName>scirocco-l@scirocco.org</st1:PersonName><BR=
>&gt;Subject:=20
  Re: interesting coolant stuff<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;On Mon, 24 Mar =
2003, T=20
  Berk wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; It's SILICA that is abrasive in old =
style=20
  coolant, it rubs seal to<BR>&gt; &gt; death and is prob. the main =
cause (right=20
  up there with stiff belts<BR>&gt; &gt; drawn too tight) of weepy=20
  waterpumps.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Check the label of the orange stuff =
next=20
  time; silica free. Prob.<BR>&gt; &gt; partly the reason the orange =
stuff seems=20
  to creep out around hoses and<BR>&gt; &gt; cause that scabby crust as=20
  well.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I believe Dex and other long-life coolants have =
special=20
  detergents that,<BR>&gt;more or less like synthetic, have a tendency =
to "clean=20
  things up", which can<BR>&gt;involve removing gunk that's keeping the =
system=20
  from leaking.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;More importantly, though, green =
antifreeze=20
  contains phosphates, and<BR>&gt;phosphates eat aluminum. It's not a =
big deal=20
  in inline cars like<BR>&gt;Sciroccos, but it's a *huge* deal in =
Vanagons,=20
  where coolant sits in the<BR>&gt;heads, seeps under the gaskets, and=20
  pits/rusts its way right through to the<BR>&gt;ground. Such a serious =
and=20
  expensive problem on those that a lot of<BR>&gt;prospective Vanagon =
buyers=20
  won't touch a bus with green coolant in it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It hasn't =
concerned=20
  me enough to immediately replace the green coolant in my<BR>&gt;'roc =
(not that=20
  I've had the stupid thing since November anyway.. grumble)<BR>&gt;but =
it's=20
  about due for a flush, and it'll get Dex when I fill it =
again.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  &gt; btw- Yep, water conducts better than coolant, 70/30 water to=20
  coolant<BR>&gt; &gt; seems like a good nominal =
minimum.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I=20
  believe 70/30 is minimum and 30/70 is maximum. Supposedly if you go=20
  above<BR>&gt;30/70, th<A=20
  =
href=3D"http://rd.yahoo.com/platinum/evt=3D8162/*http:/platinum.yahoo.com=
/splash.html">Yahoo!=20
  Platinum</A> - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://rd.yahoo.com/platinum/evt=3D8162/*http:/platinum.yahoo.com=
/splash.html">live=20
  on your desktop</A>! <o:p></o:p></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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