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interesting coolant stuff



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Jegg's sells stuff called 40 below that is somewhat like water wetter.  =
It has a real odd smell to.  I had it in my car about 4 years ago, but =
then drained it out for the winter.  I could still smell the fumes last =
year when I had the hood open and the car running.
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Dan Smith=20
  To: rfkellner@snet.net ; scirocco-l@scirocco.org=20
  Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 1:20 PM
  Subject: Re: interesting coolant stuff


  Water Wetter is great stuff if you're going to go without anti-freeze. =
If you do go with anti-freeze, most Saab experts/mechanics swear by the =
Mercedes brand anti-freeze. Doesn't pit engines at all, doesn't eat =
seals or do any bad stuff. There's a comparision that one master =
mechanic does but I can't seem to find the page. It was enough to =
convince me to go with the mercedes stuff if I was concerned about that =
kind of thing.=20

  Dan=20

   "rfkellner@snet.net" <rfkellner@snet.net> wrote:=20

    It seems like we have run the full gamut of coolant opinions. From
    straight H2O to never use the green to never use the pink/orange. =
Can
    anyone point to some industry papers or independent studies?

    Also, for someone that wants to run straight H2O aren't there plain
    additives to inhibit corrosion? If so, what is in these products?=20

    Thanks, Rick K. Soon to change water pump and coolant.....

    Original Message:
    -----------------
    From: ian Butler ian@bluemoon.hplx.net
    Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:03:55 -0500 (EST)
    To: tberk@mindspring.com, scirocco-l@scirocco.org
    Subject: Re: interesting coolant stuff


    On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, T Berk wrote:

    > It's SILICA that is abrasive in old style coolant, it rubs seal to
    > death and is prob. the main cause (right up there with stiff belts
    > drawn too tight) of weepy waterpumps.

    >! ; Check the label of the orange stuff next time; silica free. =
Prob.
    > partly the reason the orange stuff seems to creep out around hoses =
and
    > cause that scabby crust as well.

    I believe Dex and other long-life coolants have special detergents =
that,
    more or less like synthetic, have a tendency to "clean things up", =
which can
    involve removing gunk that's keeping the system from leaking.

    More importantly, though, green antifreeze contains phosphates, and
    phosphates eat aluminum. It's not a big deal in inline cars like
    Sciroccos, but it's a *huge* deal in Vanagons, where coolant sits in =
the
    heads, seeps under the gaskets, and pits/rusts its way right through =
to the
    ground. Such a serious and expensive problem on those that a lot of
    prospective Vanagon buyers won't touch a bus with green coolant in =
it.

    It hasn't concerned me enough to immediately replace the green =
coolant in my
    'roc (not that I've had the stupid thing since! November anyway.. =
grumble)
    but it's about due for a flush, and it'll get Dex when I fill it =
again.

    > btw- Yep, water conducts better than coolant, 70/30 water to =
coolant
    > seems like a good nominal minimum.

    I believe 70/30 is minimum and 30/70 is maximum. Supposedly if you =
go above
    30/70, the hot light says "Hello, too much antifreeze!" but I =
haven't
    checked...

    ian Butler / ian@bluemoon.hplx.net
    '88 Scirocco 16v, '87 Vanagon Syncro GL






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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jegg's sells stuff called 40 below that =
is somewhat=20
like water wetter.&nbsp; It has a real odd smell to.&nbsp; I had it in =
my car=20
about 4 years ago, but then drained it out for the winter.&nbsp; I could =
still=20
smell the fumes last year&nbsp;when I had the hood open and the car=20
running.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dsad_rocc@yahoo.com href=3D"mailto:sad_rocc@yahoo.com";>Dan =
Smith</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Drfkellner@snet.net=20
  href=3D"mailto:rfkellner@snet.net";>rfkellner@snet.net</A> ; <A=20
  title=3Dscirocco-l@scirocco.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:scirocco-l@scirocco.org";>scirocco-l@scirocco.org</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 24, 2003 =
1:20=20
PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: interesting =
coolant=20
  stuff</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <P>Water Wetter is great stuff if you're going to go without =
anti-freeze. If=20
  you do go with anti-freeze, most Saab experts/mechanics swear by the =
Mercedes=20
  brand anti-freeze. Doesn't pit engines at all, doesn't eat seals or do =
any bad=20
  stuff. There's a comparision that one master mechanic does but I can't =
seem to=20
  find the page. It was enough to convince me to go with the mercedes =
stuff if I=20
  was concerned about that kind of thing.=20
  <P>Dan=20
  <P>&nbsp;<B><I>"rfkellner@snet.net" &lt;rfkellner@snet.net&gt;</I></B> =
wrote:=20
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px =
solid">It=20
    seems like we have run the full gamut of coolant opinions. =
From<BR>straight=20
    H2O to never use the green to never use the pink/orange. =
Can<BR>anyone point=20
    to some industry papers or independent studies?<BR><BR>Also, for =
someone=20
    that wants to run straight H2O aren=92t there plain<BR>additives to =
inhibit=20
    corrosion? If so, what is in these products? <BR><BR>Thanks, Rick K. =
Soon to=20
    change water pump and coolant.....<BR><BR>Original=20
    Message:<BR>-----------------<BR>From: ian Butler=20
    ian@bluemoon.hplx.net<BR>Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:03:55 -0500 =
(EST)<BR>To:=20
    tberk@mindspring.com, scirocco-l@scirocco.org<BR>Subject: Re: =
interesting=20
    coolant stuff<BR><BR><BR>On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, T Berk =
wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; It's=20
    SILICA that is abrasive in old style coolant, it rubs seal =
to<BR>&gt; death=20
    and is prob. the main cause (right up there with stiff belts<BR>&gt; =
drawn=20
    too tight) of weepy waterpumps.<BR><BR>&gt;! ; Check the label of =
the orange=20
    stuff next time; silica free. Prob.<BR>&gt; partly the reason the =
orange=20
    stuff seems to creep out around hoses and<BR>&gt; cause that scabby =
crust as=20
    well.<BR><BR>I believe Dex and other long-life coolants have special =

    detergents that,<BR>more or less like synthetic, have a tendency to =
"clean=20
    things up", which can<BR>involve removing gunk that's keeping the =
system=20
    from leaking.<BR><BR>More importantly, though, green antifreeze =
contains=20
    phosphates, and<BR>phosphates eat aluminum. It's not a big deal in =
inline=20
    cars like<BR>Sciroccos, but it's a *huge* deal in Vanagons, where =
coolant=20
    sits in the<BR>heads, seeps under the gaskets, and pits/rusts its =
way right=20
    through to the<BR>ground. Such a serious and expensive problem on =
those that=20
    a lot of<BR>prospective Vanagon buyers won't touch a bus with green =
coolant=20
    in it.<BR><BR>It hasn't concerned me enough to immediately replace =
the green=20
    coolant in my<BR>'roc (not that I've had the stupid thing since! =
November=20
    anyway.. grumble)<BR>but it's about due for a flush, and it'll get =
Dex when=20
    I fill it again.<BR><BR>&gt; btw- Yep, water conducts better than =
coolant,=20
    70/30 water to coolant<BR>&gt; seems like a good nominal =
minimum.<BR><BR>I=20
    believe 70/30 is minimum and 30/70 is maximum. Supposedly if you go=20
    above<BR>30/70, the hot light says "Hello, too much antifreeze!" but =
I=20
    haven't<BR>checked...<BR><BR>ian Butler / =
ian@bluemoon.hplx.net<BR>'88=20
    Scirocco 16v, '87 Vanagon Syncro GL<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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