crossmember update (more pics..)

[optimus234@hotmail.com (Kevin S)]

When you think this crossmember will be finished so I can purchase:D? I 
really gotta get this especially if im going to do 1.8t swap. Keep the 
updates coming:D






>From: "T. Reed" <treed2@u.washington.edu>
>To: Rick Alexander <ralexander03@snet.net>
>CC: The list <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
>Subject: Re: crossmember update (more pics..)
>Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 15:33:48 -0800 (PST)
>
> > > Yeah, they slip inside the hollow bar and then will be bolted securely 
>to
> > > it through a horizontal bolt going through both the bar and the solid
> > > stub. The purpose is to provide a threaded hole in the end of the 
>hollow
> > > bar (because I don't have the equipment to weld a nut at the end), and 
>to
> > > allow for adjustment of the bar length to fit an individual chassis 
>that
> > > may have stretched or deformed over time.
> >
> > There may be no need to bolt this. The forces are up and down This item
> > can't help the bumper mounting areas to stay the same distance apart. As
> > long as the core support is still there this dimention will not change.
>
>You're probably right. I think I will bolt it anyway though, just because
>I'm planning on painting all the bare metal surfaces of the bar and
>bolting the "stub" in place will keep it from rubbing its paint off in
>the event that it does move for some reason. It's also just "cleaner" -
>I mean, theoretically you could use a steel cable tied between the two
>strut bearings instead of an upper stress bar.. the bar might be
>"overkill" because of that- but its much cleaner.. sort of a weird analogy
>but I think you see what I mean.
>
>There's nothing wrong with a /little/ overengineering :) It's when things
>get out of hand that there's a problem.
>
> > > No, I don't have a welder so I have no plans to weld it.. nothing is
> > > preventing anybody from acquiring one and welding it themselves, 
>though.
> >
> > Fair enough
>
>.. which I guess is another plus for offering unpainted bars (easier to
>weld)
>
> > That is because there is a steel bushing in the motor mount to prevent 
>the
> > bolt from crushing it. This is not the case with your hollow tube. Be
> > careful with the amount of torque you apply here.
>
>True. I actually considered putting a piece of solid bar inside the hollow
>at the middle to prevent it from crushing.. but when I actually tried
>torquing down these bolts I decided it was unnecessary - you'd really have
>to be a gorilla to overtorque these. They immediately got very hard to
>tighten further as soon as I hit that "point". Not saying that its not
>possible with an impact wrench or breaker bar, but in the cramped space
>under the car with a box wrench on one end and a ratchet on the other
>you're not going to succeed at crushing the hollow bar without the intent
>to do so (or complete ignorance of tightening torque..)
>
> > > Welding is the traditional way of making "stress bars" or other
> > > aftermarket braces. I think that a well designed bolt-together unit 
>can be
> > > an improvement on a welded one - it allows holes to be oversized and
> > > individual parts to be shifted up, down, left or right to fit a 
>particular
> > > car. This is the same mechanism of adjustment the factory uses for the
> > > front motor mount cup bracket. The holes in the bracket are twice the
> > > diameter of the bolts. The holes that I've drilled are much closer to 
>the
> > > bolt size but still slightly oversize (you have to make sure the bolt 
>will
> > > still fit through the hole after painting too!)
> >
> > Your holes should be equally large to allow for adjustment of that mount 
>as
> > well.
>
>Actually, because the middle plate is stationary after installed, they
>need only be big enough to align the holes in the plate with the threaded
>holes in the crossmember. The front mount itself adjusts completely
>independently of the plate.
>
>Still, I agree with your point here (the ability to align the front mount
>-is- important)
>
> > > With a welded bar you would need to remove the front bumper or try and
> > > hold it up with your knees while the bumper bolts are out, and
> > > simulaneously lower the bar to the ground without dropping it and
> > > chipping the paint. I can imagine how much of a pain this would be 
>because
> > > its hard enough to install the brackets for the bolt-on bar 
>individually!
> >
> > I believe you might have mis-understood me here. I was only advocating 
>that
> > the center vertical member to be welded. That would still retain the
> > atributes that you have detailed here.
>
>Ah, yes. Now I can see your point. My only rebuttal is that my
>metalworking skills are not perfect.. its very possible that the whole
>thing is slightly cockeyed. There are no straight lines to compare it to
>under the car because the body itself is curved at the bottom of the
>crossmember. Welding it takes out a small amount of adjustment for
>manufacturing tolerances. Other than that, though.. I can see no problem
>with it. (of course, I still don't have a welder! :)
>
> > Welding just the one piece would not alter the shipping in any 
>significant
> > way.
>
>Agree.
>
> > > It is about 1mm less wide on either side than the front mount cup
> > > bracket. It just came out that way, I didn't really plan it either 
>way.
> > > Doesn't seem like the extra 2mm would make any difference other than
> > > increasing weight.
> >
> > It looked larger to me so of course I had to ask.
>
>Yeah, sorry about the shoddy pictures. I -will- put up some better (and
>higher res) ones when I get a chance to take better pictures.
>
> > > If I make any more I will probably change the shape of the bracket to 
>be
> > > rounded there.
> >
> > Been there, done that, oops!
>
>Now that I think of it, I could only round it in that spot on the
>passenger side bracket. The driver side bracket has a cutout there to
>allow the radiator to be removed and installed without having the remove
>the bracket. The little plastic bulge where the radiator fan thermoswitch
>sits was interfering with the bracket so I had to carve away a little meat
>there.. see http://students.washington.edu/~treed2/xmember7.jpg
>
> > > > What is the gauge of the vertical side members?
> > >
> > > They are roughly 3mm thick.
> >
> > Should be plenty.
> >
> > Over all you have put together a great piece. My observations are from 
>the
> > point of view of my being my #1 customer. I do weld so of course a 
>welding
> > solution would come to mind. There are welders in your area who would 
>draw a
> > bead or two where you specified. You would be surprised at how 
>affordable it
> > is too.
>
>I guess I would - I tend to shy away from businesses in general because
>in my experience it always seems like they're trying to screw you. I
>haven't let anybody else work on my car since I bought the thing (with the
>exception of the windshield replacement people, and they poked a hole in
>my headliner with their pointy little seal tool.. bastards!) Whenever I
>get a quote for something it is always ridiculous (even at junkyards.. the
>local yard wanted $100 for a pair of taillights and wouldn't negotiate). I
>pretty much just "don't bother" any more. I stick with the few parts
>suppliers out there that are reasonable (parts4vws, mark@aab, local vw
>shops, etc)
>
>I should just save up for a welder and go to "welding camp" or something
>
>:)
>
> > Well done!
>
>Thanks, now I just have to sit back and step on the gas to see if it makes
>any difference.
>
>-Toby
>
> > Rick Alexander
> >
>
>
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