battery relocation question

[treed2@u.washington.edu (T. Reed)]

The conductivity of aluminum is roughly 60% of that of copper. But I think
Brian was comparing 4/0 aluminum and 1/0 copper so the aluminum would be
superior due to having roughly 16 times the cross sectional area.

As far as weight, aluminum weighs about half as much as copper.. so an
equivalently resistant aluminum wire will still weigh less than copper,
but it will be bigger (and thus harder to route through firewall grommets,
etc).

Resistance of a wire = Material resistivity * Length / Cross sectional area

Conductance is the reciprocal of resistance so a gain in cross sectional
area or a decrease in length or material resistivity will result
reduced resistance (increased conductance).

-Toby

On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Rhett Farnum wrote:

> I hate to say this Brian but aluminum DOES NOT conduct better than copper.
> This was taught to me by MANY people including electricians. It may be
> lighter but I have heard that the weight loss is no where near worht the
> conductivity loss.
>
>
>
> Peace Out,
> Rhett
> Rocco_crossing
> '83 Rocco (autocross ready, 20 days till season opener)
> '92 Olds Cutlass Ciera (DD)
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: Haygood <haygood@aemail4u.com>
> >Reply-To: haygood@aemail4u.com
> >To: "Rick Kellner" <rfkellner@snet.net>, scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> >Subject: RE: battery relocation question
> >Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 14:05:29 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >Considering that my 4/0 aluminum wire conducts way better and was less than
> >$1.50 per foot, I'm not impressed.  Still have an extra 20' length of it
> >left if anyone wants it.  Will also throw in 5' of 2/0 wire for grounds.
> >
> >BH
> >
> >--- "Rick Kellner" <rfkellner@snet.net> wrote:
> > >Vince,
> > >	I also have some 1/0 copper but it is only 13' long.  I will
> > >have to run it inside and as direct as possible.  I plan on exiting
> > >through the hole that the O2 odometer uses.
> > >I just happened to see the set up from Accel and thought that I would
> > >share it.
> > >Rick K.
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Vince Royer [mailto:vince@performancecarstereo.com]
> > >Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 12:15 AM
> > >To: Rick Kellner; scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > >Subject: RE: battery relocation question
> > >
> > >Wow! that's perfect and it's a good deal!
> > >
> > >I ran 1/0 and it's a little big to handle. But there's a pretty clean
> > >path
> > >from the hatch up the drivers side into a grometted hole.  That stuff
> > >looks
> > >cool and is the perfect gauge for the job, and at $2.50 a foot its a
> > >steal.
> > >get it!
> > >
> > >Vince
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org
> > >> [mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Rick Kellner
> > >> Sent: February 26, 2003 3:21 PM
> > >> To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > >> Subject: RE: battery relocation question
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Has anyone used this 'kit' from Accel?  It is 20' of 2GA wire for $50
> > >> ($2.50/ft).
> > >>
> > >> http://www.carshopinc.com/product/details/ACL-2842.shtml
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org
> > >> [mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org] On Behalf Of Haygood
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 1:20 PM
> > >> To: Jason Adams; Drew Teague; haygood@aemail4u.com;
> > >> rocco_crossing@hotmail.com; scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > >> Subject: Re: battery relocation question
> > >>
> > >> So I'm sure it's not what you meant by "no matter how", but lowering
> > >the
> > >> C.G. or changing the weight distribution by adding weight is NEVER a
> > >> good thing.  Only mention it because I went ten rounds with some
> > >> "engineers" in school about this.  Finally won the arguement on the
> > >> skidpad.
> > >>
> > >> So yeah, lower is better, and further back is better.  Which one wins
> > >is
> > >> a good question.  Only reason I didn't use the spare tire well was
> > >> because I keep a spare tire there.  Seemed like a good reason at the
> > >> time. :)
> > >>
> > >> I'm a big fan of balancing weight distribution front-to-rear.  Maybe
> > >too
> > >> much of one, but we may never know.  I kinda figure that compared to
> > >> real sports cars, our cars are really far off on front/rear W.D, and
> > >not
> > >> so bad on C.G. height.  Just an opinion really.  Within the year I
> > >plan
> > >> to recess my battery into the trunk floor at the rear of the trunk, so
> > >> I'll have both accomplished before too long.
> > >>
> > >> BH
> > >>
> > >> --- "Jason Adams" <roclist@accessconsulting.ca> wrote:
> > >> >I would expect that lowering the c.g. of the car is good no matter
> > >how
> > >> it's
> > >> >done, that being said the lower the battery, the better...
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >Jason Adams
> > >> >Fahrvergnugen Forever! ;)
> > >> >84 rocco 16v
> > >> >93 320i
> > >> >98 Z71
> > >> >
> > >> >----- Original Message -----
> > >> >From: "Drew Teague" <roccnroll@hotmail.com>
> > >> >To: <haygood@aemail4u.com>; <roclist@accessconsulting.ca>;
> > >> ><rocco_crossing@hotmail.com>; <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > >> >Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 8:57 AM
> > >> >Subject: Re: battery relocation question
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >> Just a quick question after reading this:  Would handling be better
> > >> with
> > >> >the
> > >> >> weight closer to the ground (i.e. spare tire well) or farther back
> > >to
> > >> >> distribute the weight a bit more evenly?  Not having had much
> > >> experience
> > >> >> with all this, I would imagine getting it closer to the ground
> > >would
> > >> >reduce
> > >> >> roll a bit, which I would think would be optimal.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> ...My $.02
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Drew
> > >> >>
> > >> >> **Drew Teague**
> > >> >> Harrisburg, PA
> > >> >>
> > >> >> `84 8v Rocco --  "Bruise"
> > >> >> `85 BMW 318
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> >From: Haygood <haygood@aemail4u.com>
> > >> >> >Reply-To: haygood@aemail4u.com
> > >> >> >To: "Jason Adams" <roclist@accessconsulting.ca>,"Rhett Farnum"
> > >> >> ><rocco_crossing@hotmail.com>, scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > >> >> >Subject: Re: battery relocation question
> > >> >> >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:22:26 -0800 (PST)
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >Deep cycle means you can discharge it more without killing it.
> > >They
> > >> are
> > >> >> >used for things like trolling motors on boats that do a lot of
> > >work
> > >> >between
> > >> >> >charges.  You don't need that.  You want gell cell.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >As for mounting position, don't just worry about countering your
> > >> weight.
> > >> >> >These cars have over 60% of there weight on the front end.
> > >Counter
> > >> that!
> > >> >> >Put the batt as far back as you can get it.  The whole "centered
> > >> over the
> > >> >> >rear axle" thing is a mystery to me as well.  Sounds nice, but
> > >from
> > >> an
> > >> >> >engineering standpoint there is nothing magical about that area.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >The downside of placing it further back is that the further from
> > >the
> > >> CG
> > >> >you
> > >> >> >place things, the harder it is to rotate the car in a turn.  If,
> > >for
> > >> >> >example, your car's weight distribution starts out at 65% front
> > >and
> > >> 35%
> > >> >> >rear, you are 15% away from the ideal of 50/50 (which is itself
> > >> >debateably
> > >> >> >ideal, but go with it).  Basic numbers I ran a while back (so they
> > >> may
> > >> >have
> > >> >> >lost accuracy with time :) ), suggested that putting the batt
> > >behind
> > >> the
> > >> >> >rear seat would make you something like 62/37, and putting it in
> > >the
> > >> rear
> > >> >> >of the trunk did something like 60 or 61/whatever.  Keep in mind
> > >> that a
> > >> >> >difference of "1" there is huge because we are only "15" away from
> > >> the
> > >> >> >ideal.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >So there is an incentive to move it far back.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >As for the increased rotational inertia, that batt., when in the
> > >> rear of
> > >> >> >the trunk, is no further from the rear axle than it was from the
> > >> front
> > >> >> >axle.  The inertia gain is probably small compared to the inertia
> > >of
> > >> the
> > >> >> >whole car, which is dominated by the engine hanging out in front
> > >of
> > >> the
> > >> >> >front axle.  The increase in rotational inertia (really it's the
> > >> first
> > >> >> >moment of inertia we are talking about, to be tech-ish), would
> > >hurt
> > >> you
> > >> >in
> > >> >> >transitions, but then the improved weight distribution would help
> > >> you in
> > >> >> >transitions as well as the rest of the turns.  Prolly close either
> > >> way,
> > >> >and
> > >> >> >either way is better than stock, but getting the battery further
> > >> back
> > >> >than
> > >> >> >the rear seat is prolly a very good idea.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >HTH.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >Brian
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >> >> > >From: "Rhett Farnum" <rocco_crossing@hotmail.com>
> > >> >> > >To: <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > >> >> > >Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 2:17 PM
> > >> >> > >Subject: Re: battery relocation question
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> So, is a dry cell the same as a deep cycle? Or are they
> > >> different and
> > >> >> >what
> > >> >> > >> is the best to run in our cars.
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> ALSO, I am thinking of putting my bettery where the back
> > >> passenger
> > >> >seat
> > >> >> > >> would be inorder to counter my wieght and balance the car
> > >better
> > >> >while
> > >> >> > >> autoXing. What would be the best way to attach the box and
> > >where
> > >> to
> > >> >run
> > >> >> > >the
> > >> >> > >> vent?
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> Peace Out,
> > >> >> > >> Rhett
> > >> >> > >> Rocco_crossing
> > >> >> > >> '83 Rocco (autocross ready, 20 days till season opener)
> > >> >> > >> '92 Olds Cutlass Ciera (DD)
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> >From: "Josh20V" <mkii@nycap.rr.com>
> > >> >> > >> >To: <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > >> >> > >> >Subject: Re: battery relocation question
> > >> >> > >> >Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:35:06 -0500
> > >> >> > >> >
> > >> >> > >> >just as a side note, this is the one Im going with.
> > >> >> > >> >
> > >> >> > >> >http://www.jshouseofeuro.com/images/stinger.jpg
> > >> >> > >> >
> > >> >> > >> >Its a Stinger brand dry cell.
> > >> >> > >> >
> > >> >> > >> >24.9 lbs / 5" H x 6-9/16" W x 6-7/8" D
> > >> >> > >> >
> > >> >> > >> >Josh Able
> > >> >> > >> >www.JsHouseOfEuro.com
> > >> >> > >> >BrandNew Eurobumpers in stock
> > >> >> > >> >check out the forums!
> > >> >> > >> >----- Original Message -----
> > >> >> > >> >From: "Vince Royer" <vince@performancecarstereo.com>
> > >> >> > >> >To: "Joe Doty" <Joe.Doty@lcnetwork.com>; "Ryan H"
> > >> ><rhock99@epix.net>;
> > >> >> > >> ><scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > >> >> > >> >Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 7:21 PM
> > >> >> > >> >Subject: RE: battery relocation question
> > >> >> > >> >
> > >> >> > >> >
> > >> >> > >> > > Just a note on all this battery stuff.  Here's my take:
> > >> >> > >> > >
> > >> >> > >> > > I wanted to get the weight of the battery right between
> > >the
> > >> 2
> > >> >> >wheels
> > >> >> > >and
> > >> >> > >> >as
> > >> >> > >> > > low as possible to lower the center of gravity.  In the
> > >> future I
> > >> >> >think
> > >> >> > >I
> > >> >> > >> > > will cut out the well and make my own, but I'll wait for
> > >the
> > >> >stereo
> > >> >> > >work
> > >> >> > >> >to
> > >> >> > >> > > start that.  For now I dropped the battery box down into
> > >the
> > >> >wheel
> > >> >> > >well
> > >> >> > >> >as
> > >> >> > >> > > far forward as possible and scewed it down.
> > >> >> > >> > >
> > >> >> > >> > > I'm using 1/0 phoenix gold power cable, through a 350 amp
> > >> circuit
> > >> >> > >> >breaker.
> > >> >> > >> > > I have a distribution block up front sending 4 AWG to the
> > >> Starter
> > >> >&
> > >> >> >4
> > >> >> > >> >AWG
> > >> >> > >> >to
> > >> >> > >> > > the Alternator.  I used the battery I had, it has a vent
> > >> hose
> > >> >which
> > >> >> >I
> > >> >> > >> >routed
> > >> >> > >> > > out the bottom.
> > >> >> > >> > >
> > >> >> > >> > > I also have another neat trick.  I recently had my car
> > >> stolen and
> > >> >> > >really
> > >> >> > >> > > don't want it happening again. If a theif cuts your
> > >battery
> > >> >cable,
> > >> >> > >alarm
> > >> >> > >> > > goes bye-bye.  So I ran a second 8 gauge cable from the
> > >> battery
> > >> >> > >directly
> > >> >> > >> > > into the main power input from the fusebox.  That way I
> > >was
> > >> able
> > >> >to
> > >> >> > >> > > eleminate the old corroded wire coming through the
> > >firewall.
> > >> >> >Suddenly
> > >> >> > >> >all
> > >> >> > >> > > my electronic devices performed better - like all the
> > >> >> >bulbs/wipers/fan
> > >> >> > >> >etc.
> > >> >> > >> > > I guess I freed up some electrons, but the biggest thing I
> > >> gained
> > >> >> >was
> > >> >> > >> >the
> > >> >> > >> > > security.  Now there is no way of disabling the alarm from
> > >> >outside
> > >> >> >the
> > >> >> > >> >car.
> > >> >> > >> > >
> > >> >> > >> > > Cheers!
> > >> >> > >> > >
> > >> >> > >> > > Vince
> > >> >> > >> > >
> > >> >> > >> > >
> > >> >> > >> > >
> > >> >> > >> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> > >> > > From: scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org
> > >> >> > >> > > [mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Joe
> > >Doty
> > >> >> > >> > > Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 2:29 PM
> > >> >> > >> > > To: Ryan H; scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > >> >> > >> > > Subject: RE: battery relocation question
> > >> >> > >> > >
> > >> >> > >> > >
> > >> >> > >> > > I used a bench vise.  Worked great!
> > >> >> > >> > >
> > >> >> > >> > > Joe Doty
> > >> >> > >> > > IT/Development
> > >> >> > >> > > joe@lcnetwork.com
> > >> >> > >> > >
> > >> >> > >> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> > >> > > > From: Ryan H [mailto:rhock99@epix.net]
> > >> >> > >> > > > Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 1:30 PM
> > >> >> > >> > > > To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > >> >> > >> > > > Subject: Re: battery relocation question
> > >> >> > >> > > >
> > >> >> > >> > > > All this battery talk brings about an interesting
> > >question
> > >> of
> > >> >> >mine:
> > >> >> > >I
> > >> >> > >> > > > bought the cheapo Summit kit, what kinda tool should I
> > >use
> > >> to
> > >> >> >crimp
> > >> >> > >> > > the
> > >> >> > >> > > > end connectors (battery terminal connections are
> > >> pre-crimped
> > >> >> > >already)?
> > >> >> > >> > > I
> > >> >> > >> > > > don't think my trusty wire cutter/crimper will work for
> > >2
> > >> gauge
> > >> >> > >wire.
> > >> >> > >> > > ;)
> > >> >> > >> > > >
> > >> >> > >> > > >
> > >> >> > >> > > > _______________________________________________
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