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does this sound right?



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actually if u think about it ..
digi 1 is very tunable .. specially if u have big cams and lots of =
engine modifications ...
it would be hella lot easier to tune digi that that CIS-E crapola ...
anyway thats my 2 cents about this ...
but that do i know ...
i will have digi 1 running on my car in a few days ...
Digi 1, 3.5Bar FPR, # 30 Injectors all this on a stock JH with a K26 off =
a 944T @ 15 Psi ( untill i haul my ass over to Dauns house to pick up =
the G60 motor AKA PG and then 20Psi all day :D )
then again ..
i need a LSD and a Bolt kit ASAP ...
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Allyn=20
  To: Jason ; The Hitman ; scirocco-l@scirocco.org=20
  Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 10:01 PM
  Subject: Re: does this sound right?


  i stand corrected on the hp thing, thats what i get for posting at =
midnight :)
  as far as the digifant thing, i think i gotta see that in action to =
believe it.
  Al

    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: Jason=20
    To: Allyn ; The Hitman ; scirocco-l@scirocco.org=20
    Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 12:06 PM
    Subject: Re: does this sound right?


    At 11:51 PM 9/13/2002, Allyn wrote:

      if the engine flows well enough, it may have been running too lean =
at high rpm
      with stock cis-e. if he gained 35 hp, its probably because he =
gained something
      small like 5-10 ft-lbs of torque dur to proper mixture at the rpm =
(but at ~5000
      rpm that small difference makes a decent hit on horseys).


    Whoa, whoa, horsey, whoa! :)
    5-10 ft-lb of torque gained at 5000rpm would add .... <drumroll =
please>  5-10 horsepower.  (4.8 - 9.5hp) =20
            10lb-ft of torque at 2000rpm would be a 3.8hp gain.
            10lb-ft of torque at 7000rpm would be a 13.3hp gain.

            (At 5252rpm, torque (in ft-lb) and hp (in SAE units) are =
equal. =20




      >   there's a guy from gruven auto works who's claiming that by =
switching to a
      > corrado g6o ecu and a fuel rail from any '91 digifont car he =
added 35hp to
      > his '88 scirocco. sounds kinda fishy to me, what do you guys =
think?

    It is completely and utterly ridiculous.  Look at the power output =
on the Digifant 1.8 versus the CIS and CIS-E 1.8s:

    JH      CIS     90hp    105lb-ft
    RD      CIS-E   102hp   110lb-ft
    RV      DIGI    100hp   109lb-ft.

    If Digifant was efficient enough to give a 35hp boost to a 16V, why =
does it perform just about the same as CIS-E?
    The fact of the matter is that Digifant was somewhat more advanced =
than CIS-E in that it controls spark as well as fuel in one control box, =
but make no mistake; there are 2 computers in there, and it is most =
certainly not as advanced as Motronic, which combines all of that =
functionality in one computer chip.

    Furthermore, a 35hp gain on a 16V would translate to 158hp!  VWKING, =
you can't be serious in thinking that a normally aspirated 1.8 16V with =
Digifant will put out the same amount of power as a 1.8 8V with Digifant =
and a supercharger!?

    I'm not saying that there aren't any gains to be had by a =
freer-flowing intake and fuel injection system, but 35hp is the kind of =
gains you can expect on a 500-Cubic Inch V8 with a severly restricted =
intake.  35hp on a 123hp 1.8 liter is a monstrous achievement.

    Other than being slightly restrictive (especially at very high rpms =
on opened up, 2.0 motors) CIS-E is incredibly accurate except that it =
closes its eyes at full-throttle.  "Accurate" means powerful -- contrary =
to most people's beliefs, you don't get more power by dumping more fuel. =
 You'll make the best power with a mixture slightly richer than stoich.  =
CIS-E does a great job of that, even as it ages and shit on the car =
breaks, until full throttle.  Then it goes into a pre-programmed "This =
much air means this much gas" mode and doesn't look to the O2 sensor to =
tell it if it's giving enough gas or not.  Even still, I think we've all =
found that the pre-programming does a pretty damn good job. =20

    Brett swapped his 2.0 16V from CIS-E to Motronic and (before the =
chip) gained something like 5hp.  It's an improvement, of course, but =
the real benefit is the ability to enhance that further in the future.  =
Only 5hp to be gained from a primitive system like CIS-E to a much more =
advanced system like Motronic speaks droves about the accuracy of CIS-E.

    And the whole idea of using a G60 computer on a normally-aspirated =
car sounds awfully strange to me.

    Of course everyone's entitled to their opinion, and here's mine:  My =
answer to Allyn is a resounding "Nope, it doesn't sound right", and to =
VWKING it's "You're on crack."

    Jason











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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>actually if u think about it =
..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>digi 1 is very tunable .. specially if =
u have big=20
cams and lots of engine modifications ...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>it would be hella lot easier to tune =
digi that that=20
CIS-E crapola ...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>anyway thats my 2 cents about this =
...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>but that do i know ...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i will have digi 1 running on my car in =
a few days=20
...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Digi 1, 3.5Bar FPR, # 30 Injectors all =
this on a=20
stock JH with a K26 off a 944T @ 15 Psi ( untill i haul my ass over to =
Dauns=20
house to pick up the G60 motor AKA PG and then 20Psi all day :D =
)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>then again ..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i need a LSD and a Bolt kit ASAP =
...</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Damalventano1@comcast.net=20
  href=3D"mailto:amalventano1@comcast.net";>Allyn</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Djason@scirocco.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:jason@scirocco.org";>Jason</A> ; <A =
title=3Dvwscir88@hotmail.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:vwscir88@hotmail.com";>The Hitman</A> ; <A=20
  title=3Dscirocco-l@scirocco.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:scirocco-l@scirocco.org";>scirocco-l@scirocco.org</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 18, =
2002 10:01=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: does this sound =
right?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i stand corrected on the hp thing, =
thats what i=20
  get for posting at midnight :)</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>as far as the digifant thing, i think =
i gotta see=20
  that in action to believe it.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Al</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=3Djason@scirocco.org =
href=3D"mailto:jason@scirocco.org";>Jason</A>=20
</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Damalventano1@comcast.net=20
    href=3D"mailto:amalventano1@comcast.net";>Allyn</A> ; <A=20
    title=3Dvwscir88@hotmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:vwscir88@hotmail.com";>The Hitman</A>=20
    ; <A title=3Dscirocco-l@scirocco.org=20
    href=3D"mailto:scirocco-l@scirocco.org";>scirocco-l@scirocco.org</A> =
</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 16, =
2002 12:06=20
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: does this sound=20
    right?</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>At 11:51 PM 9/13/2002, Allyn wrote:<BR>
    <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dcite cite=3D"" type=3D"cite">if the engine flows =
well=20
      enough, it may have been running too lean at high rpm<BR>with =
stock cis-e.=20
      if he gained 35 hp, its probably because he gained =
something<BR>small like=20
      5-10 ft-lbs of torque dur to proper mixture at the rpm (but at=20
      ~5000<BR>rpm that small difference makes a decent hit on=20
    horseys).</BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Whoa, whoa, horsey, whoa! :)<BR>5-10 =
ft-lb of=20
    torque gained at 5000rpm would add .... &lt;drumroll =
please&gt;&nbsp; 5-10=20
    horsepower.&nbsp; (4.8 - 9.5hp)&nbsp;=20
    =
<BR><X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB>10lb-f=
t=20
    of torque at 2000rpm would be a 3.8hp=20
    =
gain.<BR><X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB>1=
0lb-ft=20
    of torque at 7000rpm would be a 13.3hp=20
    =
gain.<BR><BR><X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-T=
AB>(At=20
    5252rpm, torque (in ft-lb) and hp (in SAE units) are equal.&nbsp;=20
    <BR><BR><BR><BR>
    <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dcite cite=3D"" type=3D"cite">&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
there's a guy=20
      from gruven auto works who's claiming that by switching to =
a<BR>&gt;=20
      corrado g6o ecu and a fuel rail from any '91 digifont car he added =
35hp=20
      to<BR>&gt; his '88 scirocco. sounds kinda fishy to me, what do you =
guys=20
      think?</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It is completely and utterly =
ridiculous.&nbsp; Look=20
    at the power output on the Digifant 1.8 versus the CIS and CIS-E=20
    =
1.8s:<BR><BR>JH<X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB>CIS<X-T=
AB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB>90hp<X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;</X-TAB>105lb-ft<BR>RD<X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-T=
AB>CIS-E<X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB>102hp<X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</=
X-TAB>110lb-ft<BR>RV<X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB>DI=
GI<X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB>100hp<X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</=
X-TAB>109lb-ft.<BR><BR>If=20
    Digifant was efficient enough to give a 35hp boost to a 16V, why =
does it=20
    perform just about the same as CIS-E?<BR>The fact of the matter is =
that=20
    Digifant was somewhat more advanced than CIS-E in that it controls =
spark as=20
    well as fuel in one control box, but make no mistake; there are 2 =
computers=20
    in there, and it is most certainly not as advanced as Motronic, =
which=20
    combines all of that functionality in one computer =
chip.<BR><BR>Furthermore,=20
    a 35hp gain on a 16V would translate to 158hp!&nbsp; VWKING, you =
can't be=20
    serious in thinking that a normally aspirated 1.8 16V with Digifant =
will put=20
    out the same amount of power as a 1.8 8V with Digifant <B>and a=20
    supercharger!?<BR><BR></B>I'm not saying that there aren't any gains =
to be=20
    had by a freer-flowing intake and fuel injection system, but 35hp is =
the=20
    kind of gains you can expect on a 500-Cubic Inch V8 with a severly=20
    restricted intake.&nbsp; 35hp on a 123hp 1.8 liter is a monstrous=20
    achievement.<BR><BR>Other than being slightly restrictive =
(especially at=20
    very high rpms on opened up, 2.0 motors) CIS-E is incredibly =
accurate except=20
    that it closes its eyes at full-throttle.&nbsp; "Accurate" means =
powerful --=20
    contrary to most people's beliefs, you don't get more power by =
dumping more=20
    fuel.&nbsp; You'll make the best power with a mixture slightly =
richer than=20
    stoich.&nbsp; CIS-E does a great job of that, even as it ages and =
shit on=20
    the car breaks, until full throttle.&nbsp; Then it goes into a=20
    pre-programmed "This much air means this much gas" mode and doesn't =
look to=20
    the O2 sensor to tell it if it's giving enough gas or not.&nbsp; =
Even still,=20
    I think we've all found that the pre-programming does a pretty damn =
good=20
    job.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Brett swapped his 2.0 16V from CIS-E to Motronic =
and=20
    (before the chip) gained something like 5hp.&nbsp; It's an =
improvement, of=20
    course, but the real benefit is the ability to enhance that further =
in the=20
    future.&nbsp; Only 5hp to be gained from a primitive system like =
CIS-E to a=20
    much more advanced system like Motronic speaks droves about the =
accuracy of=20
    CIS-E.<BR><BR>And the whole idea of using a G60 computer on a=20
    normally-aspirated car sounds awfully strange to me.<BR><BR>Of =
course=20
    everyone's entitled to their opinion, and here's mine:&nbsp; My =
answer to=20
    Allyn is a resounding "Nope, it doesn't sound right", and to VWKING =
it's=20
    "You're on=20
  =
crack."<BR><BR>Jason<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>=
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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