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does this sound right?
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actually if u think about it ..
digi 1 is very tunable .. specially if u have big cams and lots of =
engine modifications ...
it would be hella lot easier to tune digi that that CIS-E crapola ...
anyway thats my 2 cents about this ...
but that do i know ...
i will have digi 1 running on my car in a few days ...
Digi 1, 3.5Bar FPR, # 30 Injectors all this on a stock JH with a K26 off =
a 944T @ 15 Psi ( untill i haul my ass over to Dauns house to pick up =
the G60 motor AKA PG and then 20Psi all day :D )
then again ..
i need a LSD and a Bolt kit ASAP ...
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Allyn=20
To: Jason ; The Hitman ; scirocco-l@scirocco.org=20
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: does this sound right?
i stand corrected on the hp thing, thats what i get for posting at =
midnight :)
as far as the digifant thing, i think i gotta see that in action to =
believe it.
Al
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Jason=20
To: Allyn ; The Hitman ; scirocco-l@scirocco.org=20
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: does this sound right?
At 11:51 PM 9/13/2002, Allyn wrote:
if the engine flows well enough, it may have been running too lean =
at high rpm
with stock cis-e. if he gained 35 hp, its probably because he =
gained something
small like 5-10 ft-lbs of torque dur to proper mixture at the rpm =
(but at ~5000
rpm that small difference makes a decent hit on horseys).
Whoa, whoa, horsey, whoa! :)
5-10 ft-lb of torque gained at 5000rpm would add .... <drumroll =
please> 5-10 horsepower. (4.8 - 9.5hp) =20
10lb-ft of torque at 2000rpm would be a 3.8hp gain.
10lb-ft of torque at 7000rpm would be a 13.3hp gain.
(At 5252rpm, torque (in ft-lb) and hp (in SAE units) are =
equal. =20
> there's a guy from gruven auto works who's claiming that by =
switching to a
> corrado g6o ecu and a fuel rail from any '91 digifont car he =
added 35hp to
> his '88 scirocco. sounds kinda fishy to me, what do you guys =
think?
It is completely and utterly ridiculous. Look at the power output =
on the Digifant 1.8 versus the CIS and CIS-E 1.8s:
JH CIS 90hp 105lb-ft
RD CIS-E 102hp 110lb-ft
RV DIGI 100hp 109lb-ft.
If Digifant was efficient enough to give a 35hp boost to a 16V, why =
does it perform just about the same as CIS-E?
The fact of the matter is that Digifant was somewhat more advanced =
than CIS-E in that it controls spark as well as fuel in one control box, =
but make no mistake; there are 2 computers in there, and it is most =
certainly not as advanced as Motronic, which combines all of that =
functionality in one computer chip.
Furthermore, a 35hp gain on a 16V would translate to 158hp! VWKING, =
you can't be serious in thinking that a normally aspirated 1.8 16V with =
Digifant will put out the same amount of power as a 1.8 8V with Digifant =
and a supercharger!?
I'm not saying that there aren't any gains to be had by a =
freer-flowing intake and fuel injection system, but 35hp is the kind of =
gains you can expect on a 500-Cubic Inch V8 with a severly restricted =
intake. 35hp on a 123hp 1.8 liter is a monstrous achievement.
Other than being slightly restrictive (especially at very high rpms =
on opened up, 2.0 motors) CIS-E is incredibly accurate except that it =
closes its eyes at full-throttle. "Accurate" means powerful -- contrary =
to most people's beliefs, you don't get more power by dumping more fuel. =
You'll make the best power with a mixture slightly richer than stoich. =
CIS-E does a great job of that, even as it ages and shit on the car =
breaks, until full throttle. Then it goes into a pre-programmed "This =
much air means this much gas" mode and doesn't look to the O2 sensor to =
tell it if it's giving enough gas or not. Even still, I think we've all =
found that the pre-programming does a pretty damn good job. =20
Brett swapped his 2.0 16V from CIS-E to Motronic and (before the =
chip) gained something like 5hp. It's an improvement, of course, but =
the real benefit is the ability to enhance that further in the future. =
Only 5hp to be gained from a primitive system like CIS-E to a much more =
advanced system like Motronic speaks droves about the accuracy of CIS-E.
And the whole idea of using a G60 computer on a normally-aspirated =
car sounds awfully strange to me.
Of course everyone's entitled to their opinion, and here's mine: My =
answer to Allyn is a resounding "Nope, it doesn't sound right", and to =
VWKING it's "You're on crack."
Jason
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>actually if u think about it =
..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>digi 1 is very tunable .. specially if =
u have big=20
cams and lots of engine modifications ...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>it would be hella lot easier to tune =
digi that that=20
CIS-E crapola ...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>anyway thats my 2 cents about this =
...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>but that do i know ...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i will have digi 1 running on my car in =
a few days=20
...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Digi 1, 3.5Bar FPR, # 30 Injectors all =
this on a=20
stock JH with a K26 off a 944T @ 15 Psi ( untill i haul my ass over to =
Dauns=20
house to pick up the G60 motor AKA PG and then 20Psi all day :D =
)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>then again ..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i need a LSD and a Bolt kit ASAP =
...</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Damalventano1@comcast.net=20
href=3D"mailto:amalventano1@comcast.net">Allyn</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Djason@scirocco.org=20
href=3D"mailto:jason@scirocco.org">Jason</A> ; <A =
title=3Dvwscir88@hotmail.com=20
href=3D"mailto:vwscir88@hotmail.com">The Hitman</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dscirocco-l@scirocco.org=20
href=3D"mailto:scirocco-l@scirocco.org">scirocco-l@scirocco.org</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 18, =
2002 10:01=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: does this sound =
right?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i stand corrected on the hp thing, =
thats what i=20
get for posting at midnight :)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>as far as the digifant thing, i think =
i gotta see=20
that in action to believe it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Al</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Djason@scirocco.org =
href=3D"mailto:jason@scirocco.org">Jason</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Damalventano1@comcast.net=20
href=3D"mailto:amalventano1@comcast.net">Allyn</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dvwscir88@hotmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:vwscir88@hotmail.com">The Hitman</A>=20
; <A title=3Dscirocco-l@scirocco.org=20
href=3D"mailto:scirocco-l@scirocco.org">scirocco-l@scirocco.org</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 16, =
2002 12:06=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: does this sound=20
right?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>At 11:51 PM 9/13/2002, Allyn wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dcite cite=3D"" type=3D"cite">if the engine flows =
well=20
enough, it may have been running too lean at high rpm<BR>with =
stock cis-e.=20
if he gained 35 hp, its probably because he gained =
something<BR>small like=20
5-10 ft-lbs of torque dur to proper mixture at the rpm (but at=20
~5000<BR>rpm that small difference makes a decent hit on=20
horseys).</BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Whoa, whoa, horsey, whoa! :)<BR>5-10 =
ft-lb of=20
torque gained at 5000rpm would add .... <drumroll =
please> 5-10=20
horsepower. (4.8 - 9.5hp) =20
=
<BR><X-TAB> </X-TAB>10lb-f=
t=20
of torque at 2000rpm would be a 3.8hp=20
=
gain.<BR><X-TAB> </X-TAB>1=
0lb-ft=20
of torque at 7000rpm would be a 13.3hp=20
=
gain.<BR><BR><X-TAB> </X-T=
AB>(At=20
5252rpm, torque (in ft-lb) and hp (in SAE units) are equal. =20
<BR><BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dcite cite=3D"" type=3D"cite">> =
there's a guy=20
from gruven auto works who's claiming that by switching to =
a<BR>>=20
corrado g6o ecu and a fuel rail from any '91 digifont car he added =
35hp=20
to<BR>> his '88 scirocco. sounds kinda fishy to me, what do you =
guys=20
think?</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It is completely and utterly =
ridiculous. Look=20
at the power output on the Digifant 1.8 versus the CIS and CIS-E=20
=
1.8s:<BR><BR>JH<X-TAB> </X-TAB>CIS<X-T=
AB> </X-TAB>90hp<X-TAB> &nb=
sp;</X-TAB>105lb-ft<BR>RD<X-TAB> </X-T=
AB>CIS-E<X-TAB> </X-TAB>102hp<X-TAB> </=
X-TAB>110lb-ft<BR>RV<X-TAB> </X-TAB>DI=
GI<X-TAB> </X-TAB>100hp<X-TAB> </=
X-TAB>109lb-ft.<BR><BR>If=20
Digifant was efficient enough to give a 35hp boost to a 16V, why =
does it=20
perform just about the same as CIS-E?<BR>The fact of the matter is =
that=20
Digifant was somewhat more advanced than CIS-E in that it controls =
spark as=20
well as fuel in one control box, but make no mistake; there are 2 =
computers=20
in there, and it is most certainly not as advanced as Motronic, =
which=20
combines all of that functionality in one computer =
chip.<BR><BR>Furthermore,=20
a 35hp gain on a 16V would translate to 158hp! VWKING, you =
can't be=20
serious in thinking that a normally aspirated 1.8 16V with Digifant =
will put=20
out the same amount of power as a 1.8 8V with Digifant <B>and a=20
supercharger!?<BR><BR></B>I'm not saying that there aren't any gains =
to be=20
had by a freer-flowing intake and fuel injection system, but 35hp is =
the=20
kind of gains you can expect on a 500-Cubic Inch V8 with a severly=20
restricted intake. 35hp on a 123hp 1.8 liter is a monstrous=20
achievement.<BR><BR>Other than being slightly restrictive =
(especially at=20
very high rpms on opened up, 2.0 motors) CIS-E is incredibly =
accurate except=20
that it closes its eyes at full-throttle. "Accurate" means =
powerful --=20
contrary to most people's beliefs, you don't get more power by =
dumping more=20
fuel. You'll make the best power with a mixture slightly =
richer than=20
stoich. CIS-E does a great job of that, even as it ages and =
shit on=20
the car breaks, until full throttle. Then it goes into a=20
pre-programmed "This much air means this much gas" mode and doesn't =
look to=20
the O2 sensor to tell it if it's giving enough gas or not. =
Even still,=20
I think we've all found that the pre-programming does a pretty damn =
good=20
job. <BR><BR>Brett swapped his 2.0 16V from CIS-E to Motronic =
and=20
(before the chip) gained something like 5hp. It's an =
improvement, of=20
course, but the real benefit is the ability to enhance that further =
in the=20
future. Only 5hp to be gained from a primitive system like =
CIS-E to a=20
much more advanced system like Motronic speaks droves about the =
accuracy of=20
CIS-E.<BR><BR>And the whole idea of using a G60 computer on a=20
normally-aspirated car sounds awfully strange to me.<BR><BR>Of =
course=20
everyone's entitled to their opinion, and here's mine: My =
answer to=20
Allyn is a resounding "Nope, it doesn't sound right", and to VWKING =
it's=20
"You're on=20
=
crack."<BR><BR>Jason<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>=
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