What about the port? was: Do these things work?

[sfenton@amazon.com (Fenton, Shannon)]

My kit also came with washers for the intake manifold mounting bracket
on the back of the head.

Shannon
www.scirocco16v.com

-----Original Message-----
From: ATS - Patrick Bureau [mailto:pbureau@attbi.com]=20
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 5:40 PM
To: _Scirocco Mailing List
Subject: RE: What about the port? was: Do these things work?


Ah I see your point.. well its purchased now.. well see...

thanks for the info anyways...

btw: the gasket on the intake manifold does nothing to inibate heat from
head to manifold.. Patrick

=3D>-----Original Message-----
=3D>From: scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org
=3D>[mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Dan Bubb
=3D>Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 7:21 PM
=3D>To: Allyn; Larry; Scirocco-l@scirocco.org; flaatr@yahoo.com
=3D>Subject: Re: What about the port? was: Do these things work? =3D> =
=3D>
=3D>Yes! Air going in a straight line is what you want. The problem is =
the
=3D>straight line of the spacer is not inline with the straight line of
the =3D>manifold and head port. =3D>The point is that adding this spacer
that clearly has the port milled =3D>perpendicular to the face puts =
kinks
in the flow. =3D>The port in the manifold is inclined up 21 deg (dug out
my paperwork and =3D>found the actual number) from the head-to-block
surface of the head. The =3D>port in the head (at the manifold =
interface)
is also inclined up at 21deg. =3D>The centerline of the port in the =
spacer
is parallel to the head =3D>surface. 21 =3D>deg difference. =3D>So, the =
air
comes down the manifold port at 21 deg does a quick =3D>jog to 0 deg
=3D>goes 3/8" then does another quick jog of 21 deg.  This is not a
straight =3D>line. =3D>Now to answer the next question. Can I just port =
the
spacer to 21 deg?? =3D>No! Because the centerline of the manifold port =
and
the head port will be =3D>offset by 1/8". ~.375 X tan21. In this case
there will be big =3D>discontinueties in the port wall disrupting =
airflow
even more. Try to =3D>visualize a side view of the port. =3D>Well, hell!
While we're paying way to much attention to this POS. =3D>The whole =
=3D>idea
of this spacer is to insulate the intake manifold from the =3D>head so =
the
=3D>manifold is cooler and doesn't heat up the intake air. But, where is
the =3D>intake manifold picking up its heat from? If it's picking it up
from the =3D>head (bearing in mind that there is already an
insulator/gasket =3D>between the =3D>head and the manifold!) then =
insulating
it would be a good idea. But, what =3D>if it's picking up most of it's
heat from the adjacent exhaust =3D>manifold? If =3D>that's the case then
this spacer won't do jack Personally, I think the =3D>proximity to the
exhaust manifold it the most likely source of intake =3D>manifold heat.
=3D>I don't think I've told anyone on this list not to try something, =
but
the =3D>engineer in me says this is just a waste of time. =3D>If you do
before and after dyno runs, make sure engine and =3D>ambient air temps
=3D>are comparable and that the underhood environment is comparable =
=3D>i.e
that the =3D>effects of any potential intake manifold heating are the
same. =3D>Best of luck. =3D>Dan =3D>
=3D>----- Original Message -----
=3D>From: Allyn <amalventano1@comcast.net>
=3D>To: Larry <rocco16v@netzero.com>; Dan Bubb <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com>;
=3D><Scirocco-l@scirocco.org>; <flaatr@yahoo.com>
=3D>Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 1:00 PM
=3D>Subject: Re: What about the port? was: Do these things work? =3D> =
=3D> =3D>>
How is air going in a straight line a 'hiccup'? air wants to go in a
=3D>straight line... the more =3D>> straight line the better. =3D>> Al =
=3D>> =3D>>
----- Original Message ----- =3D>> From: "Larry" <rocco16v@netzero.com>
=3D>> To: "Dan Bubb" <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com>; <Scirocco-l@scirocco.org>;
=3D><flaatr@yahoo.com> =3D>> Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 8:19 AM =
=3D>>
Subject: Re: What about the port? was: Do these things work? =3D>> =3D>> =
=3D>>
> Good point, Dan. =3D>> > If the angle is not "built-into" the spacer,
this little =3D>hiccup in flow =3D>may =3D>> > offset any gains from =
reduced
heat. =3D>> > No free lunch, eh? =3D>> > =3D>> > Larry  sandiego16V =
=3D>> > =3D>>
> > Aside from the potential reduction in heat has anybody thought about
=3D>the =3D>> > > port shape? =3D>> > > The port exits from the head at =
~23deg
from perpendicular. =3D>So, putting =3D>in =3D>> > > this spacer gives =
you a
short section perpendicular to the head and =3D>> > offsets =3D>> > > =
the
axis of the manifold port from the head port by about 1/8". =3D>> > >
Significant?? I'd think it's a bigger factor than loosing a little
=3D>heat. =3D>> > > Dan =3D>> > > =3D>> > > ----- Original Message ----- =
=3D>> > >
From: Euroroc II <flaatr@yahoo.com> =3D>> > > To:
<Scirocco-l@scirocco.org>; <flaatr@yahoo.com> =3D>> > > Sent: Friday,
March 01, 2002 4:54 PM =3D>> > > Subject: Do these things work? =3D>> > =
>
=3D>> > > =3D>> > > > Seems like a good idea and it makes sense like it
should work but =3D>does =3D>> > it? =3D>> > > > =3D>> > > > =3D>> > > =
=3D>> >
=3D>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D
=3D>1809256474
=3D>> > > &r=3D0&t=3D0
=3D>> > > >
=3D>> > > > -Raffi
=3D>> > > > '84 Scirocco gone to a better place
=3D>> > > > '87 Scirocco 16V from Hell
=3D>> > > >
=3D>> > > >
=3D>> > > >
=3D>> > > > _________________________________________________________
=3D>> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
=3D>> > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com =
=3D>>
> > > =3D>> > > > =3D>> > > >
_______________________________________________
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=3D>> > >
=3D>> >
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