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OT: German vs. Japanese car comparison
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I have to agree my Rx7 (1986) was a tough car, and the engine , sorry to say
was superior and more powerfull (rotary 4 cyl) than any stock car of its
time, body was good, but rusted easier and faster than any other car I know
though....
==========================================
ATS - Patrick Bureau
1985 8v **Planning 3A/JH Upgrade**
1985 8v ** Titian Project **
1988 16v ** Sold **
Web Site : http://longcoeur.com/scirocco
-----Original Message-----
From: scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org
[mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Robbie Cotner
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 12:15 AM
To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
Subject: Re: OT: German vs. Japanese car comparison
As far as older jap and german cars I've owned both a '78 Datsun 280z and
my '83 Rocco. The old Datsun engines(an inline 6 in the Z's case, stock
with Bosch K-jetronic) were bulletproof, as well as the trannys. They
required little maintenence. The Z had thick steel and was REALLY solid and
tight everywhere, also had quite a bit of character. The only real
Z-weakness was their rear diffs, which often become LOUD. As far as my
Scirocco, it sure has a lot of character but I think we all should admit
there is a price we pay for liking older VW's, as far as my case goes with
the two roccos I've owned at least, and from things I've read off the list.
As far as engines go they are basically solid, but when it comes to motor
mounts, strut mounts(any VW mount!), they seem either over-stressed or
lacking in quality. Our door handles break and most VW's I've been in it
takes a few trys to roll the window up right. Everything on my Scirocco is
rather simple, which makes it easy (IMO) how right some things are and how
much they screwed up on others. But above all I love my VW. It seems that
every two problems I solve, another one comes up so hopefully I'll
eventually get a break until the process starts again. Anyway thats just my
rant-
Rob
Andrew Wong <mkii_84@yahoo.com> wrote:
I agree with a lot mentioned. I've also always
wondered when I was younger why did our VW's doors
always had this solid feel while the Japanese car I
was riding in door's felt cheap. I also noticed when
I was helping my cousin pop a dent out on his Toyota.
His fender felt like tin and was really light. That
can be said about the trunk also. The electircals on
the Japanese car didn't not look like a wiring
nightmare in my VW. and the Fuses were easy to get
too.
--- "Scott F. Williams"
wrote:
> I got in to a debate with a dude on another forum
> about German versus
> Japanese cars. Y'all might find some of this
> interesting...
>
> > :P germain engeneering... good luck... have
> fun... if you like
> > the buggers go for it... and yes I know they are
> the same company,
> > yet it seems they don't share the same
> engeneers...
>
> Oh believe me, there is a helluva lot of cross
> pollination between the two
> branches. In fact, I've got lots of Audi parts in my
> VW. And, as I explained
> before there are lots of VW parts in the Audis. VAG
> is composed of VW, Audi,
> Skoda, and SEAT. Aside from trim pieces and other
> proprietary bits the cars
> share *lots* of genetic code.
>
> > their fuel injection and other electronic
> experiments leave much to
> > be desired...
>
> Its all Bosch stuff. -similar to what comes on
> Volvos, Saabs, BMWs, and
> Porsche. In fact, a lot of the Nippon-Denso
> equipment that you'll find in
> Toyotas, Mazdas, and Nissans is really Bosch stuff
> built under license. VW
> definitely did fall off the back of the quality
> truck back in the early 90s,
> though. The car's basic underpinnings were typically
> solid and reliable.
> However, certain electrical gremlins plagued the
> cars for several years.
>
> The truth is that German car reliability is simply
> different than that for
> Japanese products. In my experience, Japanese cars
> are typically very
> reliable and well-balanced appliances with little
> character and emotion.
> Engineering-wise they are very competent. On a day
> to day basis you just
> can't kill them! They run forever with little
> maintainance, thus making them
> superb daily drivers. On a soul level, however, they
> often lack.
>
> German vehicles, on the other hand usually require
> more regular
> maintainance. They've got little quirks and
> sometimes big quirks. But, they
> have tremendous amounts of personality and keep
> their solid feel for far
> longer. The main components (engines, transmissions,
> chassis, brakes,
> suspension) last forever under hard conditions
> whereas Japanese cars have
> typically worn out earlier. Close the door on a
> Japanese economy car and it
> feels like a tin can. Do same exercise on a 1977
> Rabbit and you get a solid
> "thunk".
>
> If both sides could just get together and combine
> the best attributes of
> their cars... then we'd have something truly
> tremendous. :^)
>
> > + the price and wait on parts makes haveing a jap
> car
> > feel cheap...
>
> I agree with you 100% on this point!
> --
> Scott F. Williams
> NJ Scirocco nut
> '99 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS
> Mazda 323 GTX turbo "assaulted" vehicle
> Golf GTI 16v "rollycar"
> ClubVAC: "Roads found. Drivers wanted."
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Scirocco-l mailing list
> Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
=====
-Andrew Wong
1984 Black Scirocco
1987 White Quantum wagon
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D893343216-25072002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I have=20
to agree my Rx7 (1986) was a tough car, and the engine , sorry to say =
was=20
superior and more powerfull (rotary 4 cyl) than any stock car of its =
time, body=20
was good, but rusted easier and faster than any other car I know =
though....=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<P><FONT =
size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>ATS - =
Patrick=20
Bureau<BR>1985 8v **Planning 3A/JH Upgrade**<BR>1985 8v ** =
Titian=20
Project **<BR>1988 16v ** Sold **<BR>Web Site : <A=20
href=3D"http://longcoeur.com/scirocco"=20
target=3D_blank>http://longcoeur.com/scirocco</A><BR></FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org =
[mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org]<B>On=20
Behalf Of </B>Robbie Cotner<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 25, 2002 =
12:15=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> scirocco-l@scirocco.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: OT: =
German vs.=20
Japanese car comparison<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<P>As far as older jap and german cars I've owned both a '78 Datsun =
280z and=20
my '83 Rocco. The old Datsun engines(an inline 6 in the Z's =
case, stock=20
with Bosch K-jetronic) were bulletproof, as well as the trannys. =
They=20
required little maintenence. The Z had thick steel and was =
REALLY solid=20
and tight everywhere, also had quite a bit of character. The =
only real=20
Z-weakness was their rear diffs, which often become LOUD. As far =
as my=20
Scirocco, it sure has a lot of character but I think we all should =
admit there=20
is a price we pay for liking older VW's, as far as my case goes with =
the two=20
roccos I've owned at least, and from things I've read off the =
list. As=20
far as engines go they are basically solid, but when it comes to motor =
mounts,=20
strut mounts(any VW mount!), they seem either over-stressed or lacking =
in=20
quality. Our door handles break and most VW's I've been in it =
takes a=20
few trys to roll the window up right. Everything on my Scirocco =
is=20
rather simple, which makes it easy (IMO) how right some things =
are and=20
how much they screwed up on others. But above all I love my =
VW. It=20
seems that every two problems I solve, another one comes up so =
hopefully I'll=20
eventually get a break until the process starts again. Anyway =
thats just=20
my rant-=20
<P>Rob=20
<P>=20
<P><B><I>Andrew Wong <mkii_84@yahoo.com></I></B> wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px =
solid">I=20
agree with a lot mentioned. I've also always<BR>wondered when I was =
younger=20
why did our VW's doors<BR>always had this solid feel while the =
Japanese car=20
I<BR>was riding in door's felt cheap. I also noticed when<BR>I was =
helping=20
my cousin pop a dent out on his Toyota. <BR>His fender felt like tin =
and was=20
really light. That<BR>can be said about the trunk also. The =
electircals=20
on<BR>the Japanese car didn't not look like a wiring<BR>nightmare in =
my VW.=20
and the Fuses were easy to get<BR>too. <BR>--- "Scott F. Williams"=20
<SFWILLIAMS@COMCAST.NET><BR>wrote:<BR>> I got in to a debate with =
a dude=20
on another forum<BR>> about German versus<BR>> Japanese cars. =
Y'all=20
might find some of this<BR>> interesting...<BR>> <BR>> > =
:P=20
germain engeneering... good luck... have<BR>> fun... if you =
like<BR>>=20
> the buggers go for it... and yes I know they are<BR>> the =
same=20
company,<BR>> > yet it seems they don't share the same<BR>> =
engeneers...<BR>> <BR>> Oh believe me, there is a helluva lot =
of=20
cross<BR>> pollination between the two<BR>> branches. In fact, =
I've=20
got lots of Audi parts in my<BR>> VW. And, as I explained<BR>> =
before=20
there are lots of VW parts in the Audis. VAG<BR>> is composed of =
VW,=20
Audi,<BR>> Skoda, and SEAT. Aside from trim pieces and =
other<BR>>=20
proprietary bits the cars<BR>> share *lots* of genetic =
code.<BR>>=20
<BR>> > their fuel injection and other electronic<BR>> =
experiments=20
leave much to<BR>> > be desired...<BR>> <BR>> Its all =
Bosch=20
stuff. -similar to what comes on<BR>> Volvos, Saabs, BMWs, =
and<BR>>=20
Porsche. In fact, a lot of the Nippon-Denso<BR>> equipment that =
you'll=20
find in<BR>> Toyotas, Mazdas, and Nissans is really Bosch =
stuff<BR>>=20
built under license. VW<BR>> definitely did fall off the back of =
the=20
quality<BR>> truck back in the early 90s,<BR>> though. The =
car's basic=20
underpinnings were typically<BR>> solid and reliable.<BR>> =
However,=20
certain electrical gremlins plagued the<BR>> cars for several=20
years.<BR>> <BR>> The truth is that German car reliability is=20
simply<BR>> different than that for<BR>> Japanese products. In =
my=20
experience, Japanese cars<BR>> are typically very<BR>> =
reliable and=20
well-balanced appliances with little<BR>> character and =
emotion.<BR>>=20
Engineering-wise they are very competent. On a day<BR>> to day =
basis you=20
just<BR>> can't kill them! They run forever with little<BR>>=20
maintainance, thus making them<BR>> superb daily drivers. On a =
soul=20
level, however, they<BR>> often lack.<BR>> <BR>> German =
vehicles,=20
on the other hand usually require<BR>> more regular<BR>> =
maintainance.=20
They've got little quirks and<BR>> sometimes big quirks. But,=20
they<BR>> have tremendous amounts of personality and keep<BR>> =
their=20
solid feel for far<BR>> longer. The main components (engines,=20
transmissions,<BR>> chassis, brakes,<BR>> suspension) last =
forever=20
under hard conditions<BR>> whereas Japanese cars have<BR>> =
typically=20
worn out earlier. Close the door on a<BR>> Japanese economy car =
and=20
it<BR>> feels like a tin can. Do same exercise on a 1977<BR>> =
Rabbit=20
and you get a solid<BR>> "thunk".<BR>> <BR>> If both sides =
could=20
just get together and combine<BR>> the best attributes of<BR>> =
their=20
cars... then we'd have something truly<BR>> tremendous. =
:^)<BR>>=20
<BR>> > + the price and wait on parts makes haveing a =
jap<BR>>=20
car<BR>> > feel cheap...<BR>> <BR>> I agree with you =
100% on=20
this point!<BR>> --<BR>> Scott F. Williams<BR>> NJ Scirocco =
nut<BR>> '99 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS<BR>> Mazda 323 GTX turbo=20
"assaulted" vehicle<BR>> Golf GTI 16v "rollycar"<BR>> ClubVAC: =
"Roads=20
found. Drivers wanted."<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>=20
_______________________________________________<BR>> Scirocco-l =
mailing=20
list<BR>> Scirocco-l@scirocco.org<BR>>=20
=
http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l<BR><BR><BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
<BR>-Andrew=20
Wong <BR>1984 Black Scirocco<BR>1987 White Quantum=20
=
wagon<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do =
You=20
Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live=20
=
better<BR>http://health.yahoo.com<BR><BR>________________________________=
_______________<BR>Scirocco-l=20
mailing=20
=
list<BR>Scirocco-l@scirocco.org<BR>http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/=
scirocco-l</BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><BR>
<HR SIZE=3D1>
<B>Do You Yahoo!?</B><BR><A href=3D"http://health.yahoo.com/";>Yahoo! =
Health</A>=20
- Feel better, live better</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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