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on "euro" injection.....(long)



On 1/8/02 11:58 AM, "Andrew Stauffer" <andrew.stauffer@cannondale.com>
wrote:

> Okay gang,  
> The topic is CIS"euro injection".  I'm going to ramble on a bit about the
> subject, please correct or adjust my thinking as necessary.

Sure thing

> In a nutshell, it
> drops the O2 sensor/frequency valve from the fueling equation, runs richer,
> and therefore provides more power.  Accurate so far?

Somewhat. People quote that it was used to get 130-something HP out of the
euro KR motor, but remember that this motor had the euro cam, 50mm intake,
and NO CAT. Honestly I don't think that the fuel injection has all that much
to do with the extra HP. It was possible to use a simpler system since the
car did not have a catalytic converter. It may run a little richer, which
would provide a bit extra power. But not worth it for the money.

> But-and here's where I get confused- If I want my CIS lamda fueled 2.0 8v
> motor to get a richer mixture, I can dial it in with the 3mm mixture control
> adjustment in the airbox/fuel dist.

No, the 3mm adjustment is for idle mixture only, it has insignificant effect
on higher RPM. 

> So I'm left to wonder, if I unplugged the O2 sensor and dialed in more
> richness, were is the benefit to Euro injection over this?

This won't work. The Bosch K-lambda injection is set to work with the
frequency valve operating at 50% duty cycle. Unplugging the O2 sensor I
believe will shut off the frequency valve also, and no adjustments you make
can bring it back anywhere near stoichiometric values.

> Is the Euro inj air cone shaped such that this full throttle enrichment is not
> necessary, it's already "in there" and accounted for?

I suppose, but more importantly, the 16v vs 8v cones are different. I
believe the euro cone and US cone are the same. For an 8v Motor, use the 8v
cone. Simple as that.

> Going beyond this simple a/f mixture adjustment , I've heard folks say that
> you could also reshim the control pressure reg.

You're thinking of adjusting System Pressure. Used to be a fad, from what
I've heard, but someone showed that it didn't make much difference. This is
one way to adjust overall fuel delivery, but I don't know the range of
adjustment. However, the O2 sensor will pick up on the change and bring it
right back to stoich.

> I'm thinking it's supposed performance
> benefits wouldn't be that hard to emulate with any ole CIS fuel dist.

To emulate the CIS in the KR motor, simply pick up a fuel distributor from
an early A1 that did not use an oxygen sensor. Screw this on to your air
flow sensor, and connect up all the fuel lines. Remove the Cat. Now you can
play with system pressure, without having your efforts thwarted by the
frequency valve. Use a fuel pressure gauge to make sure that you are doing
it right. And measure the flow rate of your injectors before, as well as
after. Install a Air-Fuel Ratio Gauge to tell you where you're at.

Also, the fuel distributor has ways to adjust fuel flow to the injectors.
Tricky and you need to monitor the flow adjustments, but it can be done. Buy
a good book on the Bosch Fuel Injection systems (search amazon.com for some
choices, buy the one published by our good friends at Robert Bentley
Publishers)

> Whaddya think?

I think that "euro-injection" is a waste of money for most.

1) The system is simpler/ cheaper to maintain, but for a lot less money, you
can repair the "malfunctioning" CIS-e on the 16v cars, and enjoy better fuel
mileage. 

2) People who want to race can set up CIS-E to have whatever enrichment they
want via using a full throttle enrichment device. $10 in electronics.

3) Power gain is questionable. I'd like to see dyno sheets before and after
from an independent 3rd party. I don't trust salespeople, and people who
drop $300+ on a mod, will usually tell you it was worth it. Seat of the
pants is a big lier.

You seem more concerned with how to tweak the stock 8v Fuel Injection to
give more power. 

My suggestion is to leave it be. The K-lambda system is incredibly adaptable
to increased air flow. Darrell Vittone of TT estimated it would support
180hp. You should be more concerned with improving the breathing of your
car. This involves, High flow cat back system, (eliminating cat, if you're
"off road"), header or 4-2 EM/dual downpipe, porting/polishing the head, 3
or 5 angle valve job, lumpy cam, enlarging intake runners, bigger TB, 80mm
air flow sensor, K&N. Make sure you are not running lean, and when you
exceed 180hp come back for more.

Ironically the CIS airflow plate is an extremely restrictive part of the
fuel system. The solution is to go to an aftermarked EFI, making everything
I just wrote obsolete.

My .02

Jonas
78 Scirocco 1.8
85 Scirocco 2.0
90 Audi Coupe Quattro 20v