H&R G Springs

[jdbubb@ix.netcom.com (Dan Bubb)]

I"m thinking this guy wants to slam his car. So.....let him slam his car!
Anybody that's been there, or remotely close, knows it's a shit solution.
But, it's like telling a psycho not to stick his dick in the pickle
slicer....
Whatever.
Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: Vince Royer <vince@performancecarstereo.com>
To: Allyn <amalventano1@comcast.net>; Scott F. Williams
<sfwilliams@comcast.net>
Cc: Scirocco List <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 3:46 PM
Subject: RE: H&R G Springs


> Ok, So you had a progressive spring, and the couple hundred extra pounds
> compressed them through the soft part. So don't you think The hundred
pounds
> I took off of my front end will make a difference?  Not to mention I'm
> getting linear springs, not progressive. Also not to mention they're A2
> springs, so they're designed for a lot more weight in the first place.  So
> this would be like taking 16V springs and putting them on your 8V, only
> shorter. I know as soon as the A arms angle the other way you start
screwing
> things.  Anybody know exactly how much drop makes them sit horizontal?
>
> That's the reason I'm thinking about the taller upper mounts. That would
> essentially act like a body drop. It would make the body sit lower on the
> suspension, without changing anything about the suspension.  The only
issue
> would be tire rub, but I'm only on 15s, and I never plan to go any bigger.
>
> Keep it coming!
>
> vince, here is an example:
> i had a set of neuspeed 8v softsports which i moved over to a 16v. the
extra
> weight made the ride
> height about an extra inch lower. also of note is that the added weight
put
> teh softsports at their
> higher spring rate all the time (similar to what you wanted to do - raise
> the spring rate). the 16v
> ended up lowered a total of about 2.5" over stock. It drove like complete
> crap! sure i had no
> trouble on the highway, besides the fact that hitting lane reflectors made
> the car shutter. i had to
> keep the konis adjusted pretty firm to prevent bottoming the car
constantly
> in city driving. more
> importantly, the car had bad signs of bump steer. it wasnt the decent type
> of bump steer that
> actually helps keep a fwd car under control, it was the opposite effect
> (this was due to the fact
> that the a-arms were pointing upwards, which throws a major wrench in the
> suspension geometry). the
> car was just plain terrible to drive, and i had SOME suspension travel.
your
> plan will put you at
> NONE. you've gotta face it, man, the car just wasnt made to sit that low.
> suspension travel needs
> more credit for what its actually doing. any car driving down the road
uses
> a good inch of travel on
> a constant basis. this inch is being used by shock-type impacts which on
> your setup would be
> absorbed directly by the frame. an a1 scirocco frame will tolerate that
> abuse by converting _itself_
> into the extra travel (i.e. weak points, cracks, splits, etc).
> please man, dont do it, not if you plan on driving it on the street.
> Al
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Vince Royer" <vince@performancecarstereo.com>
> To: "Scott F. Williams" <sfwilliams@comcast.net>
> Cc: "Scirocco List" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 12:26 PM
> Subject: RE: H&R G Springs
>
>
> > Ok, I need to explain my situation.  I live downtown vancouver and
> > unfortunately I hardly get to actually "drive" the car agressively. Even
> if
> > I had the chance, I would most certainly get busted by one of the
million
> > cops in this city and probably be sent to jail.  Yes, around here you
can
> > actually get sent to jail. So if I loose some travel it's not the end of
> the
> > world to me, it will most likely just slow me down which is a good
thing.
> > Keep in mind, right now the car is on cut factory spings with shocks
that
> > feel like they blew up about 10 years ago. It is constantly bottomed
out.
> > So by getting nice stiff springs, and brand new shocks, couldn't things
> only
> > improve? The springs I'm getting offer a 2" drop, and with them being A2
> > springs will more realistically give me a 2.5" drop.  However, my car is
a
> > lot lighter than an A2 so it would most likely ride about 2" lower than
> > factory.
> >
> > So I think I've got the height right.  I just don't want it to bottom
out
> > when I hit a bump going around the odd cloverleaf overpass.  So I
thought
> I
> > had the formula right.  Stiff springs with lots of damping.
> >
> > What do you think of those taller upper mounts that give you an extra
inch
> > of travel?  Would this be a good application for those?  I hate how
> > Scirocco's have no front travel and boatloads of rear travel.
> >
> > Anyways, keep talkin... I'd like to hear more.
> >
> >
> >
> > This is a recipe for disaster, my man. Slamming your car may look good
to
> > you, but it will render your car nearly useless for driving on real
> streets.
> > A major problem with our cars is that they were not blessed with enough
> > suspension travel. In fact, we only got about 3" from the factory.
> Slamming
> > your car that low will essentially remove *all* available travel.
> >
> > This isn't just about using a high enough spring rate to keep the car
from
> > bottoming. In fact, if you drop the car that far you won't even need any
> > springs because the damper's pistons will *be* your bumpstops! In order
to
> > go that low you'll be forced to install dampers with shortened shafts.
> This
> > will provide more critical compression travel, but will eliminate the
same
> > amount of droop travel. -not good at all...
> >
> > Keep in mind, also, that your car will handle and ride like utter crap.
> The
> > likelihood of chassis, suspension, and wheel/tire failure will be
greatly
> > increased. Every pebble and paint strip on the ground will launch your
car
> > into the air. Clearing speed bumps without punching your struts through
> the
> > hood will be a challenge. Just forget about playing CDs... My advice is
to
> > drop your car a maximum of 1.5". That is, *if* you care at all about how
> the
> > thing drives on the street.
> >
> > If all this will be is a show car... then do whatever you want and don't
> > even worry about your spring rates. Why bother to optimize a situation
> that
> > can't be helped? This is like giving a suicide bomber a physical exam
> before
> > sending him on his mission.
> >
> > > My question (finally) is this:  What kind of shock should I get
> > > to dampen these springs?  I don't have a huge budget but I want
> something
> > > that will handle being slammed for a few years.  Also, I ordered some
> > > new upper strut mounts at the same time, is there anything else I
should
> > do?
> >
> > What you're attempting to do is foolish -not to mention impossible.
Either
> > build the car for shows or build it to actually function. As much as I
> > question the validity of coilovers for the street, you seem like a great
> > candidate for them. Drop the thing all the way down once you get to your
> > parking spot and crank'm back up on the way out.
> >
> > What you really should do (you asked) is decide on whether you are a
> driver
> > or a parker and build your car to suit. I realize that this advice may
> > disappoint you. It may even sound overly conservative. It's your
> perogative
> > to heed these warnings or follow them. Just, make sure you have fun
either
> > way!
> > --
> > Scott F. Williams
> > NJ Scirocco nut
> > '99 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS
> > Mazda 323 GTX turbo "assaulted" vehicle
> > Golf GTI 16v "rollycar"
> > ClubVAC: "Roads found. Drivers wanted."
> >
> >
> >
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