[16v] low end torque (or the lack thereof)

[amalventano1@comcast.net (Allyn)]

    i hate to say this, but check your dry compression. also, dont drive on any kind of road trip
until you do. i lost my first rocco on a road trip because i didnt realize the rings were on their
way out. the effect i experienced was very poor response/torque at idle speeds, yet decent power
above 2-3k. what i didnt know was that i was getting blow-by. it would take like 3 seconds to go
from idle to >2k in neutral with my foot on the floor. the engine sounded like it was accelerating
(intake sound), but it just wouldnt get there like it should have. it was such a gradual loss of
power (over a year) that i had no clue as to the cause. the way our fuel management works, it
compensates for the rings going and actually keeps a decent air-fuel ratio going, so you end up with
just low power (as opposed to stumbling/missing). a 16v with good compression will have decent
torque even at low rpm. take the rieger for example. it has an FN tranny (diesel trans, very wide
ratio), and i drive around at 30-40 mph in 4th (about 1600 rpm) and have no problems accelerating in
normal traffic. had i tried this in my first scirocco it would have been slowing down with it
floored.
    use this as a guide: a stock 1.8 16v makes approx 90 ft-lbs of torque at 2000 rpm. this is only
about 15% less than its torque peak. a safe estimate is about 80 ft-lbs at idle. this torque should
be able to at least push you back into the seat a bit. if you're having such low torque that the
5-10 ft-lbs required for the a/c compressor makes launching difficult, your engine is making way
less torque than it should be.

Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
87 Rieger GTO Scirocco 16v (daily driver, 180k, rocco #6)
86 Kamei Twin 16V Turbo Scirocco GTX ('it has begun', rocco #7)
86.5 Occo 16v Trailer (dotting 'i's across the country, rocco #8)
87 Jetta 8v Wolfsburg 2dr (daily driver, 260k, 0 rattles, original clutch, driveshafts, wheels :)


----- Original Message -----
From: "T. Reed" <treed2@u.washington.edu>
To: <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 4:38 AM
Subject: [16v] low end torque (or the lack thereof)


> Well, guys... now that my A/C is fixed, my low end torque problem has
> become painfully obvious.
>
> I have to turn the A/C off at every stop. If I don't, 0-10 mph takes 6 or
> 7 seconds (not an exaggeration -- the people behind me start riding my ass
> when the light has been green for that long and I'm barely rolling). The
> only alternative is to rev to 2 grand (still about 1.5 seconds) and drop
> clutch, which sometimes chirps the tires (lightly releasing the clutch
> just makes the rpms dip back down to idle and then rise slowly.)
>
> The car runs great/fine above 1500 rpm..
>
> Is this normal? It can't be.. for the longest time I've been assuming the
> 16v engine just blows off-idle but now I'm think I have serious
> engine issues (but is it fuel or ignition? or mechanical?).
>
> Where should I start looking?
>
> Ignition timing is set to full advance (setting it at 6 degs just makes it
> worse)
> DPR current is set to 10 mA fluctuating +/- 1 mA
> Idle stabilizer is working
> Plugs, plug wires, bosch cap, rotor, hall sender all new
> O2 sensor within last year and a half
> Fuel filter changed
> Euro intake cam
> Crank<->Cam and Cam<->Cam timing dead on at last check
> Idle air bypass screw set mostly by experimentation because no adjustment
>   could yield a proper dwell meter reading
> Idle and full throttle switches test out okay
> 3" sewer pipe running to stock opening in lower airbox
> k&n air filter, possibly with some crankcase breather oil soakage on it
> All vacuum hoses replaced
> Intake boot leak next to throttle body patched
> No exhaust leaks - new downpipe and new dynomax superturbo muffler
>
>
> Any ideas? Even without the A/C the car is slow off the line..
>
> I would appreciate any input!
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Toby
>
>
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