tech: engine balancing - why dont our engines have balancer shafts?

[palace_master@yahoo.com (Chris Jung)]

As I recall, Porsche paid Mitsubishi for the use of
balancing shafts in the 944 motor.  Has anyone rebuilt
a 944 motor and remember if there were shafts in it?

Chris J.
'83 Scirocco GT
'81 Kawasaki KZ550

--- Allyn <amalventano1@comcast.net> wrote:
> The mere use of a balancing shaft cant possibly be
> licensed. its too wide a topic for a patent in
> this situation. The only way to compensate for 2nd
> order force in an inline 4 cylinder without
> making other vibration is by using 2 balancing
> shafts. As long as the numbers are correct, there
> would be 0 block movement in any direction (the 2nd
> order force in an uncorrected engine causes a
> vertical movement). After some research my guess is
> that vw figured the engine was smooth enough.
> Al
> 
> Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
> 87 Rieger GTO Scirocco 16v (daily driver, 170k,
> rocco #6)
> 86 Kamei Twin 16V Turbo Scirocco GTX ('it has
> begun', rocco #7)
> 87 Jetta 8v Wolfsburg 2dr (daily driver, 260k, 0
> rattles, original clutch, driveshafts, wheels :)
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Pieper" <rapieper@yahoo.com>
> To: "Allyn" <amalventano1@comcast.net>; "audley
> wilson" <amwilson@andrew.cmu.edu>; "scirocco list"
> <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 7:45 PM
> Subject: Re: tech: engine balancing - why dont our
> engines have balancer shafts?
> 
> 
> > IIRC, that technology belonged to Mistubishi, and
> I assume that they
> > licensed it, and for some reason VW
> didn't/couldn't do it.  That's
> > right off the top of my head...facts are welcome
> here...
> >
> > Ron
> >
> > > <amalventano1@comcast.net>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >     As the topic states, why dont our
> engines use balancer
> > > shafts? To
> > > > > perfectally balance a 4 cylinder engine, you
> must eliminate the
> > > 2nd order
> > > > > force generated by the pistons unequal
> opposition (piston near
> > > bottom
> > > > > moves less than piston near top - for a
> given crankshaft
> > > rotation).
> > > > > The big reason i am asking this is because
> our engines dont seem
> > > all too
> > > > > vibration prone as compared to an engine
> that employs a balancing
> > > shaft
> > > > > (i.e. the 2.0 DSM engines).     Now before
> some of you try to
> > > think up a
> > > > > way to add balancing shafts to our engines,
> realize that to
> > > eliminate the
> > > > > 2nd order force, a balancing shaft must
> rotate at twice the speed
> > > of the
> > > > > crank.
> > > > >     Another wrench to throw in the works is
> that the balancer on
> > > my talon
> > > > > was 1:1 driven from the crank, but had
> internal gearing such that
> > > the
> > > > > balancer spun at half the speed (i.e. just
> like the cams).
> > > > >
> > > > > Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
> > > > > 87 Rieger GTO Scirocco 16v (daily driver,
> 170k, rocco #6)
> > > > > 86 Kamei Twin 16V Turbo Scirocco GTX ('it
> has begun', rocco #7)
> > > > > 87 Jetta 8v Wolfsburg 2dr (daily driver,
> 260k, 0 rattles,
> > > original
> > > > > clutch, driveshafts, wheels :)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
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