Re: programmable engine management

[Dan Bubb <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com>]

I don't understand why Brian is suggesting hooking the MAP sensor into
the manifold for a TPS based system. If you use a TPS based system, or
TB mapping, the MAP sensor is used for measuring barometric pressure.
It's not connected into the intake.
Scott:
I really thought your post on your discussion with Electromotive sort of
sealed the deal. TEC II can be MAP based with TPS as the primary input
at low loads (if that's required)

"Scott F. Williams" wrote:
> 
> Why do you advise not using a vacuum canister for MAP in the throttlebody
> situation? As you acknowledged, the point of using the canister is to dampen
> the pulses. So, why avoid it?
> --
> Scott F. Williams
> NJ Scirocco nut
> Golf GTI 16v rallycar
> Mazda 323 GTX turbo assault vehicle
> 
> Check out our rally team's website!
> http://www.usrallyteam.com
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > [mailto:owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Brian Haygood
> > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 11:13 PM
> > To: lauri.pettai@netexpress.ee; sixteen.volt@verizon.net;
> > sfwilliams@home.com; rapieper@yahoo.com; scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > Subject: Re: programmable engine management
> >
> >
> >
> > I haven't read EVERY post on this topic, but a few of the last ones.
> >
> > My experience:
> >   Using TB mapping on a Haltech F9 or F9a on restricted bike engines.
> > My $0.02:
> >   Haltech requires that you hook up the MAP sensor even if you
> > are doing TB
> > mapping.  I can't recall exactly, but it uses the map pressure to correct
> > for something or other.  Don't know about TEC, but it may require
> > installation of the MAP even if it isn't used for MAP mapping.
> >
> >   Someone asked how TB mapping allows correction for temp, humidity and
> > altitude.  Altitude is corrected by measuring air pressure (I
> > think this is
> > where the MAP comes in).  Temp is corrected by an ambient temp
> > sensor, and
> > on Haltech's, the temp correction is tuneable.  Humidity itself is not
> > corrected for, I believe, and is part of the O2 sensor's job.
> >
> >   My other 0.02 is that, in my experience, TB mapping works
> > better than MAP
> > mapping, though I have heard some people say that is a problem with
> > Haltech's.  For the Badger5 setup, I would imagine that TB is much more
> > reliable just because the pressure waves are going to be so
> > nutty, and even
> > if you route the 4 lines to a common canister to dampen the
> > pulsations, it
> > seems like this is not going to be as accurate a reading as you
> > would want
> > for primary fuel mapping.
> >
> > My suggestion:
> > Use TB mapping, with the MAP hooked up to all 4 inlets without any extra
> > provision (i.e. canister) to dampen waves.  A small reservoir
> > wouldn't be a
> > bad idea, but I'd probably try it without.
> >
> > Sincerely;
> > Brian Haygood
> >
> > >From: "Lauri Pettai" <lauri.pettai@netexpress.ee>
> > >To: "Neal Tovsen" <sixteen.volt@verizon.net>,   "Scott F. Williams"
> > ><sfwilliams@home.com>,   "Cheapass Ron" <rapieper@yahoo.com>,
> > "Scirocco-L"
> > ><scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > >Subject: Re: programmable engine management
> > >Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 20:03:09 +0200
> > >
> > > > > > So where does the airflow meter
> > > > > > go????   Where am I stupid here?  What is my wrong assumption???
> > > > >
> > > > > Yo, Cheapass! Your amusing incorrect assumption is that the
> > state of
> > >the
> > > > > fuel injection art is still stuck in an eighties timewarp! :^) We
> > > > > don't need
> > > > > no steenking airflow meters anymore! Consider that the load on the
> > >engine
> > > > > must be measured somehow. There are two ways of doing this: either
> > >measure
> > > > > the amount of the air flowing in (our scenario), or measure the
> > >manifold
> > > > > pressure plus other related functions.
> > > >
> > > > I don't think Ron's stuck in the 80's, though he /is/ an old
> > chap! I was
> > > > wondering the same thing too. And I'm not looking for a floating
> > >mechanical
> > > > plate, either!
> > > >
> > > > I think we were both just wondering if there was a place to
> > mount a MAP
> > >or
> > > > MAF sensor. On any car I've known, the MAP or MAF is mounted to the
> > >intake
> > > > before the individual cylinder runners split, but on a separate TB
> > >system,
> > > > there is no such place. I suppose it could be only mounted on one TB
> > >with
> > > > calculations to account for four cylinders, but at a glance,
> > it doesn't
> > >even
> > > > look like there's room for any such sensor below the air horns. Where
> > >does
> > > > it go?
> > >
> > >Hmm... Scott is probably stuck in nineties. :) We do not even need a MAP
> > >sensor
> > >for TB conversion. The engine load is only measured by TB
> > sensor. TB sensor
> > >is
> > >usually used for acceleration enrichment, but when doing a TB
> > conversion it
> > >has
> > >to be used for both. As you said that there's no place to connect a MAP
> > >sensor
> > >and even if you run a separate vacuum wire from each runner then
> > you get a
> > >MAP
> > >pressure that is so jumpy that you can't map nothing with it so
> > TB sensing
> > >is the
> > >only way to do it right. At least my system is set up like that and it
> > >works.
> > >
> > >Lauri!
> > >'84 2.0 16v Scirocco GTX Kamei X1 Bodykit (VIN025736)
> > >http://www.eabc.edu.ee/~laurts/scirocco
> > >I finally added something new to my site!
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> >
> >
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