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RE: Twin 16v Motor pics and site

To: "Fry, Larry" <LEF@chem-tronics.com>, Allyn <amalventano1@home.com>, Brian Wagner <scirocco_88_16v@hotmail.com>, scirocco list <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
Subject: RE: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
From: 16V Jason <jason@scirocco.org>
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:53:08 -0500
In-Reply-To: <27ECEE1382F61445B6F1AFAD1C2254AF814C02@com.chem-tronics.com>
Sender: owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org
At 03:39 PM 11/16/2001, Fry, Larry wrote:
>AL-
>   Your thinking on the hydraulic (everyone else note spelling, please)
>actuation is good up to a point.

I had kept my mouth shut about that.
However:

>   I may not have done an adequate job of describing the phenominon, but hope
>it gets you thinking along the same track.


I'm a spelling and grammar Nazi as well.  If you point out a spelling 
mistake, you must then make sure that your response is free of 
mistakes.  "Phenominon" should be spelled "Phenomenon."

On a lighter note, your observations of hydrodynamics are correct. :)

Busting your chops only cause it's Friday,
Jason






>Larry  sandiego16V
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Allyn [mailto:amalventano1@home.com]
>Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 11:17 AM
>To: Brian Wagner; scirocco list
>Subject: Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
>
>
>Brian,
>     The master clinder works on a slightly different principal. It deals
>with an increase in pressure moreso than actually moving the caliper
>pistons. In this case, the calipers are moving only about 1/16th of an inch.
>The design is only meant to raise pressure on the caliper pistons, and
>therefore force on the brake pads. There would be exactly the same pressure
>on both pistons of the front/rear diagonal pair. If one caliper was jammed,
>it wouldnt move, but would still have the same pressure (fluid) applied to
>it, where the non-jammed caliper of the pair would be the only one doing the
>braking.
>     This same situation compared to a clutch setup, where one pressure plate
>may have slightly stronger springs compared with the other, more fluid would
>flow to the slave on the 'easier' tranny, causing it to disengage before the
>other.
>     Also as you mentioned about the bore: yes, you would need 2x area of
>bore surface in the master to get full travel on both clutches, yet this
>creates another problem: you are now effectively hitting 2 clutches at once,
>therefore the force you need to push clutch the pedal to the floor is now 2x
>(that would suck in traffic, heh).
>Al
>
>Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
>87 Rieger GTO Scirocco 16v (daily driver, 170k, rocco #6) running - for now
>87 Jetta 8v Wolfsburg 2dr (daily driver, 260k, 0 rattles, original clutch,
>driveshafts, wheels :)
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Brian Wagner" <scirocco_88_16v@hotmail.com>
>To: <amalventano1@home.com>
>Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 1:07 PM
>Subject: Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
>
>
> > I thought about it some more and in the example you sited each car would
> > need a 4 piston master cylinder for the brakes. The same princple would
> > apply for this, I believe the stroke and bore are the key. ( I know I
>added
> > bore now)
> >
> > Brian
> >
> > 87 16v
> > 86 8v (parts car)
> > 85 Wolfsburg (white coming to a garage near me soon)
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Allyn" <amalventano1@home.com>
> > >To: "Brian Wagner" <scirocco_88_16v@hotmail.com>
> > >Subject: Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
> > >Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 12:47:03 -0500
> > >
> > >the single piston on the master only moves x volume. this matches x
>volume
> > >in a single slave and moves the clutch lever. add another slave and you
>now
> > >have 2x volume to fill. Is there some other way that they work that i am
> > >missing perhaps?
> > >Al
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Brian Wagner" <scirocco_88_16v@hotmail.com>
> > >To: <amalventano1@home.com>
> > >Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 12:42 PM
> > >Subject: Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
> > >
> > >
> > > > why would each move 1/2 distance, the volumetric pressure being equal
>in
> > >the
> > > > system and all?
> > > >
> > > > Brian
> > > >
> > > > 87 16v
> > > > 86 8v (parts car)
> > > > 85 Wolfsburg (white coming to a garage near me soon)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Allyn" <amalventano1@home.com>
> > > > >To: "Brian Wagner" <scirocco_88_16v@hotmail.com>,
> > ><koabi@lazyslacker.com>,
> > > > ><scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > > > >Subject: Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
> > > > >Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 12:38:51 -0500
> > > > >
> > > > >Yes, but each clutch would move 1/2 the length. Also, if one had more
> > > > >resistance than the other, only the one with less resistance would
> > >move.
> > >We
> > > > >would need some kind of dual poston master.
> > > > >Al
> > > > >
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: "Brian Wagner" <scirocco_88_16v@hotmail.com>
> > > > >To: <koabi@lazyslacker.com>; <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > > > >Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 12:33 PM
> > > > >Subject: RE: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > A single hydraulic clutch master could be used inconjunction with
>2
> > > > >slaves,
> > > > > > this would ensure equal clutch engagement to both t/m.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brian
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 87 16v
> > > > > > 86 8v (parts car)
> > > > > > 85 Wolfsburg (white coming to a garage near me soon)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "koabi brooks" <koabi@lazyslacker.com>
> > > > > > >To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > > > > >Subject: RE: Twin 16v Motor pics  and site
> > > > > > >Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 12:26:18 -0500
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >im skeptical about the power.  two engines 275 HP per = 2*275 HP
> > > > > > >total?  that seems wrong to me.  Anyone care to explain?  I
>assumed
> > > > > > >this bad boy has two trannys with some super huge linkage.
>Someone
> > > > > > >mentioned something about a hydrolic clutch, which leads me to
> > >believe
> > > > > > >there would only be ONE tranny, but that makes no sense to me.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >englighten me please :)
> > > > > > >koabi
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > > > >From: owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > > > > >[mailto:owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Dave Ewing
> > > > > > >Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 9:08 AM
> > > > > > >To: Scirocco List
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >The site did say that each motor was running at 275hp (2.0 or
>2.1L
> > >16v
> > > > > > >on a serious shot of nitrous).  That would make it 550hp total.
> > >Sounds
> > > > > > >like it could be done!?  I'd love to take a ride in it!!!  I
>wonder
> > > > > > >what top speed would be?  I am sure it would only be restricted
>by
> > > > > > >gearing!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Dave
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >--
> > > > > > >Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
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> > > > > > >majordomo@scirocco.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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References:
- RE: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
  - From: "Fry, Larry" <LEF@chem-tronics.com>
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