RE: throttlebodies versus turbo

["Scott F. Williams" <sfwilliams@home.com>]

> Scott,
> My $1500 thrown together 16v Turbo estimate is right on the money.  Figure
> $450 for the manifold, $150 for the turbo, $250 for plumbing of
> oil/water/intercooler, $100 intercooler, $100 clutch upgrade, $250
> miscellaneous.  Use stock CIS-E injectors and engine management along with
> an AIC $250 and your ready to Roc with right around 200HP......this is
> figuring a nice 5-7lb boost system on a 2.0 16v motor.

Okay, I'll let you go on the numbers. 'Twas a minor part of my logic,
actually. :^) I still don't think that the average shadetree mechanic is
capable of accomplishing this feat, though.

> Let me point out that this is not a sijmple bolt on due to the
> fact that you
> lose the vacuum port necessary for our cars vaccum assisted brake system.
> Therefore you have to drill and tap 4 ports into the Badger5 setup and run
> those 4ports to a central vacuum cylinder and then to the brake
> booster.........how comfortable are YOU drilling and tapping your $1000
> individual TB setup?

Oh, come ON now. How difficult is this compared to rigging an entire turbo
system let alone tuning it. Team t-body wins this round by KO. (ding!)

> The individual TB setup will not save anywhere near 70lbs.  The 16v Roc
> intake manifold upper and lower including TB barely weighs about
> 30lbs and I bet the Badger5 setup is the same.

Consider that you've got to add an intercooler, piping, and the turbo
itself. The retained CIS crap and the intake manifold add pounds, too. My
estimate of 70lbs stands unchallenged. Next...

> Agreed, sticking even 200HP at the wheels requires a clutch upgrade and
> probably a quaiff.  But, you have one and so do I. :-P~

-true true. After this point a lot of this just boils down to ego points.
But, that is half my point. The t-bodies get you all the horsepower you
*need*. Whereas the turbo gets you more that you probably can't even use in
real life. Keep in mind, that I'm fixated on backroad driving. If dragracing
or challenging Hondas on the highway is a priority, then my all my hot air
goes out the window.

> As for reliability most aftermarket systems win out over 20
> year old stock systems. By the same token add the same
> aftermarket setup to
> our homebrew turbo along with, a fuel rail and 5500cc
> injectors.....and pick up another 50+ wheel HP.

Wow, you know how to make 5500cc injectors idle? That's impressive! (Sorry,
I've got nothing intelligent to say about your reasonable position on this
one.) ;^)

> NOS....silly wabbit NOS is for Dentists. Even the most basic 50 shot setup
> on an Individual TB system will cost at least $500 to buy and set up.

Okay, you win this round on the basis of cost *only*. After all, nitrous is
for college dorm room parties, too. LOL

> A low boost 16v setup using the smaller/newer t-25 turbo or the .42 AR T-3
> with .48 exhaust will start delivering boost around 2500 RPMS and be fully
> blowing by 5000.

I'll give you this round one, too. With very high compression plus boost,
the turbo lag will be minimal.

> Just for the record, the sound of a BOV venting at 10psi between shifts is
> THE coolest sound ever to come from a 16v Roc.

Now, that definitely *is* true. But the sounds that an unrestricted intake
system makes can be equally intoxicating! Btw, you won't get much BOV noise
when you're routing it back to the intake tract. That, of course, is the way
to do it when you're stuck with an AFM. Otherwise the system goes way rich
and you bog between shifts. -just a minor point.

Finally, given my extremist proclivities, I say that to do a 16v turbo
project correctly, you've gotta get in there and replace the pistons with
lower compression forged pieces. Otherwise you're either a) paranoid, or b)
always wishing that you could run more boost, or c) both of the above.

Okay, buss' dat, homeboy!
______________________________
Scott F. Williams
Account Manager
GENUiTY - Eastern Region
100 Wall Street, 10th Floor
New York, NY 10005
*NEW* Voice: 646.576.8465
Cell: 917.648.2256
scott.williams@genuity.com


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