Re: Speeding is good? No I don't agree... [What is a good driver?] <long>

["Patrick Bureau" <patricdlc@hotmail.com>]

jason,

you know I need to find out if you on my way back home from Montreal and I 
really hope you are *or anywhere close to a single 5hrs detour)
I would like to sit and have a beer with you on day. sounds like we coudl 
discuss this for days at LONG lengh on this list but I am afraid we are 
boring the other folks...


    ___  ___________
   /   |/_  __/ ___/  A Texan's Scirocco 1985 8v
  / /| | / /  \__ \   http://www.longcoeur.com/scirocco
/ ___ |/ /  ___/ /   (AIM) patricdlc, (ICQ) 32918816
/_/  |_/_/  /____/



----Original Message Follows----
From: 16V Jason <jason@scirocco.org>
To: pbureau@home.com, scirocco-l@scirocco.org
Subject: Re: Speeding is good? No I don't agree... [What is a good  driver?] 
<long>
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 15:04:41 -0500

At 12:41 PM 11/1/2001, Patrick Bureau wrote:

>Jason, glad you see it still as a conversation.

Hey Patrick,
No worries, it'll stay a conversation always with me; you'll never see me
mad on this list. :)

I do have a few comments though:


>Technology as been claiming many lives in cars, telephones, radio now with
>cdroms, Tv sets etc etc etc... that is just a fact that people, the
>average job actually LETS himself be distracted because driving is such a
>common occurence and 90% of the avergae joe on the road beleives they are
>good drivers because they have not had an accident in teh last 2 years of
>driving (as per inforced by inssurance corporations...), this has worsen
>since the arrival of SUV's now they drive tanks and don't even get hurt
>when they run over other peoples car with them.

Right.  Being accident-free is not an indicator of being a good driver.  My
Grandmother, whom I absolutely adore, is regrettably a horrible driver, but
one with a 50+ year driving history and not a single accident.  And on the
other hand, some of the best drivers I know have had many accidents.


>100MPH (as previously quoted by example in a zone of 45-50MPH) is
>reckless. dangerous, even if you are a consiencious driver, a tire blow
>out at 100MPH on a daily road will take you into a house, a telephone post
>or even worst... that kid admiring how fast you car was coming up the
>road, just before you squash him on the sidewalk and kill him. that is
>what I am talking about.

Well, you're right.  Stopping distances grow exponentially as speed
increases -- as does the force involved if you have an accident.  However,
to say that 160km/h/100mph is a reckless speed is exactly the type of
brainwashing I was talking about because of speed limits.  100mph is most
certainly a reckless speed in a city.  But on a purpose-built highway with
limited access, medians, etc?  There's a very good reason why Germany has a
lower death rate than the US even though they have much higher speeds and a
much more densely populated country:  Prudency.  Their speed limits are
prudent -- they make sense, so people follow them.

Now driving at 100mph next to a sidewalk where there's a remote chance of
*anyone* standing is reckless.  But as far as I'm concerned, so is
60mph.  Given the right conditions, though, 150mph isn't unreasonable at 
all.

And, for the record, the 110-in-a-55mph ticket I got was a limited access,
4-lane-in-each-direction, perfectly flat, perfectly straight, perfectly
paved section of I-95.  North and South lanes are separated by a 10-foot
high wall, and there are guard rails on both sides of the roadway.  There
are no houses nor children to hit, and as I said, having passed only 3 cars
in 32 miles, there also wasn't anyone else to hit.


>I am not arguing the speed laws in some areas are below logical
>explanations (I have seen 15MPH limits on 3 lane roads) but in hine-sight
>the limits are what they are NOW, because every hot-rod-head in his
>mustang and camaro has blown and raced on the same road, killed children,
>injuded others, destroyed property etc, and the towns and cities are tired
>of the massacares because these "children" holding a steering wheel. (I am
>using children not in an age sense but in a frame of mind sense)

Rightfully so!  I'm the asshole holding up traffic actually doing 15mph on
school zones!  And then people get mad at me for wanting to drive 70mph on
an open country road.


>I may sound like a preacher and perhaps my point of views come being in
>teh 70's driving a monster car, able of 9s 1/4 mile racing on street
>tires, being reckless myself, and first accused of my statements above,
>but I have encountered an accident that me realize in the 90's that even
>if you know you car, even if you are carefull, you will have an accident
>at least once in your life, and as "insane" as I might of been in teh
>past, and probably because of it, I got "lucky" ran into a ford 1955 with
>a Honda civic, I walked away from the accident with a bump on my head, the
>car was totaled. the truck has a bent license plate (damn trucks are built
>tuff in those days...)

I, too, had an accident that forever changed the way I feel about
speed.  Many of you know about it.  I was in the passenger seat for 2
accidents separated by 3 weeks, both with the same driver.  The first, we
totalled the S-10 Pickup we were riding in when a drunk driver pulled out
of a blind intersection in front of us.  Impact speed was close to
75mph.  Thankfully, no one was hurt.

Three weeks later, we're in the rental car because the S-10 (which had only
a few thousand miles on it), was totalled.  We entered a curve at 110mph
and halfway through, the driver got spooked and hit the brakes.  We wound
up flying off of a 17-foot cliff at an estimated speed of 100mph, only to
land below, flipping one time back-over-front and then 5 and a half more
times side over side.  We were the first people to ever survive this cliff
and we made the evening news, etc...  apparently it's a very dangerous
corner, and accidents happen there all the time, but we were going fast
enough that we flew over the trees rather than slamming into them.

All things considered, we both were extremely lucky.  But it did leave me
with more than a year of physical therapy and a number of permanent 
injuries.

>Andy used to drive Sprint cars in the USA, the details I got is that he
>was driving ~ 100MPH on the highway (clear day no rain) and some drunk
>bastard on the right lane, saw him coming up on the left lane and decided
>it would be fun to play crash derby with his cadillac. Andy got
>side-winded, and flew into the middle ditch and velocity took him across
>the bank into opposing traffic he ran under an 18 wheeler that never saw
>him coming and crushed the car with his rear wheels.

But here is a perfect example where the conditions were not right for
driving 100mph.  Yes, it was a clear day -- but he was passing a car with
an obviously high speed differential.  That's fine on an Autobahn, where
people are prepared for, and expecting, that.  I have no problem passing
cars at 150mph, but not if they're going only 60.  Speed doesn't kill;
speed differential does.  Sorry to say, but it sounds like Andy should have
slowed down before he passed the asshole in the Cadillac.


>It will always be hard for me that anyone driving a mass produced car at
>the limit of the edge on public roads is a consiencious driver.

Well, I think you know I disagree, depending on where, when, and how... but
that's what makes life interesting!

Take care,
Jason




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