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RE: Anyone have a 2117cc 16V



Jason,
So that's six of one and a half-dozen of another, right?
Your definitions in parentheses of undersquare and oversuqare are identical. 
  Just to make sure I have the terminology right, is it:

oversquare - bigger bore than stroke - rev happy
undersquare - bigger stroke than bore - torquey

or do I have them reversed?

BH

>From: 16V Jason <jason@scirocco.org>
>To: "Fry, Larry" <LEF@chem-tronics.com>, Randy B <sirocco@telocity.com>,   
>chris jevens <rocco1987@hotmail.com>
>CC: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>Subject: RE: Anyone have a 2117cc 16V
>Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 11:04:00 -0500
>
>At 09:58 AM 11/1/2001, Fry, Larry wrote:
>>Longer rods are benefitial because they put lower side-loads on pistons,
>>decreasing friction and wear.  Their added benefit of a decrease in piston
>>speed is a moot point in our engines, since our engines are nowhere near
>>critical piston speed.  They also provide for reduced inertial loads 
>>(apart
>>from loads as a function of pure piston speed) on pistons/pins/rods, but,
>>again, outside of a pure racing engine, this means nothing to us street
>>people.
>
>Right.  And to go one step back, though:  Engines that are oversquare (i.e.
>have a larger bore than stroke) tend to be lower-revving, higher-torque
>motors.  Undersquare motors (big bore, little stroke), tend to be smoother
>and rev-happier at the expense of low-end torque.
>
>...but that's just one of many, many variables.
>
>Jason
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>Larry  sandiego16V
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Randy B [mailto:sirocco@telocity.com]
>>Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 5:37 PM
>>To: chris jevens
>>Cc: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>>Subject: Re: Anyone have a 2117cc 16V
>>
>>
>>Chris,
>>Thanks for the info :)
>>
>>Hmmm.....
>>But wouldn't the taller block create slower piston speed and therfore less
>>power?
>>My basic understanding is that with a smaller angle (piston further from 
>>the
>>centerline of crank) the speed of the piston in it's down stroke, at 90*,
>>and it's upstroke, at 270* would be slower, pulling in less air (or 
>>pulling
>>it in at a slower velocity). There would also be less compression because
>>less air is being compressed.
>>Am I even remotely correct in these assumptions???????
>>
>>The taller block would be smoother (probably why VW went to the taller
>>setup) because of less side-load on the pistons and smaller angles for the
>>movement of the 'system' to overcome. Again does this make sense?????
>>
>>Also, isn't rev-ability mainly a function of airflow and/or port velocity?
>>
>>Thanks
>>Randy (wishing he had paid attention in physics class)
>>
>>
>>
>> > Randy I have been curious about the same type motor. I have been 
>>talking
>>to
>> > a couple people from Velocity sport tuning... they have been a lot of 
>>help
>> > to me in the past, and I have found them to have a lot of truth to what
>>they
>> > say. The BS is at a minimum. They recommend the use of a tall block 
>>from
>>the
>> > later 2.0 8v crossflow motors that seemed to have taken place of the 
>>16v
>> > 2.0.
>> > This would be:
>> >
>> > -95.5 crank (lightening of course, possible knife edging)
>> > -160mm connecting rods (check the EIP website they have chromoly,
>> >                         forged, and titanium)
>> > -pistons? I havn't gone that far, but for this application I guess they
>> >                         would custom... again Velocity has them.
>> > As far as the ratio of bore to stroke... I was told by Velocity that 
>>using
>> > the other older block(9A) from the later 2.0 16v motors of the early 
>>90's
>> > you wouldn't be able to spool all the way up to red line... how true? I
>> > havn't had a chance to go any further with it... though they said they
>>have
>> > done the combination 95.5/160mm rods/Bore?(didn't ask)/tall block from 
>>a
>>2.0
>> > 8v, and had great success with it working ridiculously well through the
>> > whole power band... sounds good to me... $$$ value?? maybe it would be
>> > cheaper to go to a turbo?
>> >
>> > well I hope that helps you in your quest for power/speed...
>> > chris jevens
>> >
>> > >From: "Randy B" <sirocco@telocity.com>
>> > >To: <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
>> > >Subject: Anyone have a 2117cc 16V
>> > >Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:45:09 -0800
>> > >
>> > >Has anyone built, or know someone who has, a 2117cc 16V (or 8V for 
>>that
>> > >matter).
>> > >I would like to find someone who has tried this succesfully or
>>unsucesfully
>> > >and why.
>> > >
>> > >JE (other?) 84mm forged pistons, Carillo (other?) forged rods, and 
>>95.5mm
>> > >TDI forged crank (knife-edged to lighten) in a 9A block (16V)
>> > >
>> > >I am considering finding a 90-92 GTI and doing a complete
>> > >motor/fuel/motronic swap.
>> > >It seems if I can:
>> > >A. B. Have the head flowed and ported as needed for the proper port
>> > >velocity.
>> > >C. Match th correct cams
>> > >D. Run ~11.2:1 compression
>> > >
>> > >I could have a monster of a motor with good streetability.
>> > >
>> > >What do you all think, need some advice here :)
>> > >
>> > >Thanks,
>> > >Randy
>> > >81 Scirocco S "Mars" - needs a bigger motor
>> > >81 Scirocco S "Cosmos" - will get the TT 1847cc 8V for daily duties
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >--
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