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Re: in-depth radiator theory (attn cheapass ron, brian mcgarvey, list, radiator gurus)



I did a decent flush today with some drain-o (yea, yea, dont laugh), and also a full can of carb
cleaner (got ALOT of phosphates (white stuff) out). I also cleaned the outside of the radiator
(apparently it has been filtering the earths atmosphere for the past 14 years). It was hard to tell
at night (cool), but things seemed to be going alot better. Once warmed up, temps seemed to stay at
95c while moving, went up to 100 at stop lights (no traffic), but actually went back down to 95ish
when moving again (it NEVER went back down to 95 before, 100 was the absolute minimum, but this is 2
am). Then when i got home i figured i'd do the idle test. sat there for like 10 minutes, oil temp
went to 100, water temp needle finally was no longer covering the led, and started rising. water
temp 3/4 of the way up and the fan kicks on (low speed). oil temp barely above 100. fan goes on for
about a minute and off for about 3 minutes. oil temp stays at 100, but water temp goes up further,
about 1/8" from the high line. I let it sit at that state for a few more minutes to be sure it
wouldnt get any worse in traffic later on. it pretty much stuck there. now i click the a/c fan
switch over to '1' (on my car, with no freon pressure, this simply forces the rad fan in low full
time). i figure the fan on full time would be able to drive my water temp back down. let it run 10
minutes like that, water temp stays high, refuses to lower. oil temp bumps down a tad (98-99).
i think im gonna do another flush session tomorrow. im so tempted to use some "CLR" in it, but that
warning about etching metals and 'do not use on aluminum' are worrying me. perhaps it just dulls the
finish of aluminum, hrm, i wonder.
al

Allyn Malventano, ET1(SS), USN
87 rocco 16v (rieger gto - green - 'der rocco' - restoration in progress)
87 jetta 8v wolfsburg 2dr (260k, still tight :)


----- Original Message -----
From: "S. Coleman" <deadbolt@mindspring.com>
To: "Allyn" <amalventano1@home.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 3:14 AM
Subject: Re: in-depth radiator theory (attn cheapass ron, brian mcgarvey, list, radiator gurus)


> Oh damn Allyn,....if you haven't tried this stuff,..you'll never use engine
> degreaser again.  (seriously!  It is just that damn good.)  Actually some
> auto parts stores have stopped selling it....  Anyway,...you have Advance
> Auto Parts down there don't you?  (you should,...they are here in Columbia)
> They sell it there,...very cheap and accept no substitute.  (they don't
> compare)   God that sounds like I have stock in that stuff.   :^)  Give it a
> try on some greasy parts and see what I mean.
> Oh,...if you use this stuff full strength,...wear gloves.  (this isn't one
> of those "safety" notices)   This stuff will really remove skin.   :^0
> HTH,
> Chris
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Allyn <amalventano1@home.com>
> To: S.Coleman <deadbolt@mindspring.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 2:36 AM
> Subject: Re: in-depth radiator theory (attn cheapass ron, brian mcgarvey,
> list, radiator gurus)
>
>
> > Chris,
> > where do i get said "purple power"???
> > i never heard of the stuff.
> > al
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "S.Coleman" <deadbolt@mindspring.com>
> > To: "Allyn" <amalventano1@home.com>
> > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 1:13 AM
> > Subject: Re: in-depth radiator theory (attn cheapass ron, brian mcgarvey,
> list, radiator gurus)
> >
> >
> > > Hey Allyn,..I had a similar problem when I first put my motor back
> > > in....temps just wouldn't fall.  I too tried the "flush" deal and I
> think it
> > > did help....Here is what I ended up doing.   I put duct tape on the
> lower
> > > radiator flange, (where the lower rad. hose connects), then poured in a
> > > 50/50 mixture of "Purple Power" and water.  I let that sit up over
> night.
> > > The next day I emptied and what a surprise.....brown freaking crap
> > > everywhere.   I poured in more mystery potion and shook the hell out of
> the
> > > rad. for a bit.   Lastly,..many a many flushes with the garden
> hose.....I
> > > won't say this IS the way to do it,...but I use purple power for nearly
> > > everything....and this worked wonders for my coolant temps.
> > > HTH,
> > > Chris
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Allyn" <amalventano1@home.com>
> > > To: "scirocco list" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 10:27 PM
> > > Subject: in-depth radiator theory (attn cheapass ron, brian mcgarvey,
> list,
> > > radiator gurus)
> > >
> > >
> > > > ok, guys, i have some theories on our (well, some of our) radiator
> > > delemas.
> > > >     i've been checking out the radiator/hose layout on my car. the
> coolant
> > > seems to come into the
> > > > top, go across the top half of the radiator, down the other side, and
> > > across the bottom half and out
> > > > to the thermostat. Where the temp fan switch comes in is at the 1/2
> way
> > > point. Now comes the theory.
> > > > Some other location info: oil temp comes right off the filter. water
> temp
> > > comes right off the head.
> > > > Now, why would our cars run over 100 on the oil temp and over 3/4 the
> way
> > > up on the water temp?
> > > >     I believe a crapped up radiator can cause this while still giving
> > > 'normal' fan cycles and the
> > > > like. Imagine said radiator is all crapped up, therefore has low flow.
> Hot
> > > water from block goes
> > > > into radiator (slowly). Slowly makes its way to the temp switch.
> > > Eventially trips the sucker, but
> > > > due to the low flow, the fan doesnt stay on for very long due to the
> low
> > > flow condition (water gets
> > > > cooled off much more since its moving slower, spends more time by the
> fan,
> > > etc...). On top of the
> > > > typical observation that this is a bad thing, whats also worth noting
> is
> > > this is feeding 'batches'
> > > > of cold water into the engine. The ideal way the system should work is
> > > temp goes up, fan kicks on
> > > > for a while to drive temp down (observable on gauges), fan kicks off,
> all
> > > is happy. What im getting
> > > > is temp goes up slowly as fan cycles on and off. temp eventually
> > > stabilizes at 115c oil and 3/4
> > > > water (at night, in SC). Now I know alot of you want to jump on the
> "check
> > > grounds/gauges" thing.
> > > > All grounds are good. Resistance measurements taken directly at rtd's
> > > (temp senders) on engine
> > > > indicate that the water around the senders is in fact at these higher
> than
> > > normal temperatures.
> > > >     Brian McGarvey could easily spout out about 3000 formulas to
> relate
> > > water speed through a heat
> > > > exchanger to differential temperature across said heat exchanger. Clog
> up
> > > radiater - higher
> > > > delta-temp - water out of radiator is cooler, while water into it is
> > > hotter - fan switch is 'fooled'
> > > > by said condition - engine runs hot as freggin hell. okok,
> Q=mc(delta)t. Q
> > > is overall heat transfer,
> > > > m = mass flow rate (water speed), c = heat transfer coefficient
> (constant,
> > > unless you change
> > > > antifreeze concentration), and delta t is the diff between
> inlet/outlet
> > > temp. drop the m, and the
> > > > delta goes flying up even if the radiator is removing the same amount
> of
> > > heat. Happy there, brian
> > > > :P.
> > > >     Another important thing is that when i pulled the water temp fan
> > > switch off of the radiator
> > > > there was a 1/16 to 1/8" layer of black goo on it. This was in a big
> > > passage! imagine whats in every
> > > > single tube on the radiator!
> > > > What this tells me is that the prestone flush, while getting alot of
> rust
> > > and stuff out of the
> > > > system, didnt touch the deposits of crap in the radiator.
> > > >     Now for the burning question: There has to be some chemical i can
> put
> > > in the radiator overnight
> > > > (radiator off the car) that will break this stuff down. i figure i can
> > > flush it alot better off of
> > > > the car (powerflush with hose, really hot water, etc). What are you
> guys
> > > thoughts on using stuff
> > > > like CLR (that calcium lime rust breakdown thingy from tv), or perhaps
> > > diluted engine cleaner or
> > > > carb/choke cleaner. That stuff works wonders on the outside, i would
> > > imagine it could do something
> > > > for a radiator.
> > > >     I would much rather spend 5-10$ on cleaning it than $150ish on a
> new
> > > one.
> > > > OK, im off to yank crapped up radiator.
> > > > al
> > > >
> > > > Allyn Malventano, ET1(SS), USN
> > > > 87 rocco 16v (rieger gto - green - 'der rocco' - restoration in
> progress,
> > > need stub axle, wobble
> > > > wobble)
> > > > 87 jetta 8v wolfsburg 2dr (260k, still tight :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
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> > > majordomo@scirocco.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>


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