Re: [tech] suspension - Front upper stress bar Q's

["andkat" <forgotit1@home.com>]

>Hi Andy,
>         The upper stress bars won't help the strut towers themselves from
>cracking or disforming -- but they will help the torsional rigidy of the
>car as a whole.  Imagine for a minute what the front of the car looks like
>without any body pieces up front.  You have two crossmembers running
>longitudinally, connected at the bottom by the front crossmember,
>stressbar, and engine.  But you have no support higher up, because the hood
>can't be welded to the fenders...



>
>Thus, on bumps and high-force curves, the whole front end of the car can
>easily bend.  Adding an upper-level support member greatly reduces body
>flex down below.
>
>If you drive a car with an upper brace right after one without, you can
>feel the difference immediately.  Turn-in is considerably quicker with the
>tie-bar.  The steering is more precise over surface irregularities, and the
>car tracks much better.  The biggest difference is on long sweepers with
>undulating or slightly bumpy (i.e. not enough to bottom the
>suspension).  Take the turn really fast (like at 90%) and keep the steering
>wheel in the same spot.  You'll notice the car squirm around a whole lot
>less with the upper tie bar.  The reason is because the front isn't flexing
>as much, which keeps the steering geometry more consistent.

I know I'm not the best driver in the world but, I have put a lot of seat
time in modified scirocco's, owned them for the last 20 years.   I have
driven with and without and cannot tell the difference.(upper bar)



>
>Mind you, you'll _never_ eliminate body flex on an A1 by doing anything
>short of welding in a 500-point roll cage, but if you're a sensitive enough
>driver to be able to feel the frame flexing, you'll feel a tremendous
>difference with the upper tie bar.
>
>And, as an aside, if it didn't work, stiff-framed cars like the E36 BMW
>3-series wouldn't use them on the M3s. :)


True but that car is a diferent creature and I'll bet they are not held on b
y four  tiny (6mm?) bolts that connect to the strut bearing.  Maybe if you
welded them to the car you might see some difference.
>Jason
>
>
>
>At 08:14 PM 1/15/01 , andkat wrote:
>>I don't think anybody would notice the car handling any different with or
>>without a upper stress bar.  The only time I've seen the paint on the
strut
>>towers cracking is after somebody hit a curb.  There is just know way
those
>>things are going to flex enough to make a difference. The lower is a
>>completely different story.
>>
>>Andy 1.9 '79
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Randy Block <RandyB@E-Risk.com>
>>To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
>>Date: 15 January, 2001 12:29 PM
>>Subject: [tech] suspension - Front upper stress bar Q's
>>
>>
>> >Ok,
>> >Since were on the subject of suspension components.
>> >I am currently running a Neuspeed upper strut tie bar, always have on my
>> >A1's
>> >What are others running that they believe to be better and why?
>> >I have always had my doubts about the Neuspeed unit due to small tubing
>>dia.
>> >and possible flex at the bends.
>> >I have had to BOW the bar to get it to fit before, this seems to
discredit
>> >the functionality of the bar, right?
>> >Should the bar have SOME flex in it?
>> >I have seen other designs that seem to provide more stiffness, Dick W's
>> >square tube bar, Craig's stainless bar, bars with much larger tubing
dia,
>> >etc... etc...
>> >My guess is the reason the Neuspeed bar is so common is simply due to
the
>> >#'s made and the low price.
>> >
>> >I guess my question is:
>> >Is STIFFER better, or should there be a little flex in the upper strut
tie
>> >bar.
>> >
>> >Thanks,
>> >
>> >Randy B
>> >81 (Mars) Scirocco S - Techtonics Tuning 1847cc 8V
>> >81 (Cosmos) Scirocco S - future Oettinger 16V project
>> >87 Jetta GLI 16V - daily driver
>> >
>> >--
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>> >
>>
>>
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>
>
>
>
>----------
>1987 Scirocco 16v
>1988 Mercedes 190E Sport Euro
>
>
>http://www.scirocco16v.org
>
>
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