Re: Velocity 16V Cam setup and 50mm manifold...

["dale witt" <dwitt1@satx.rr.com>]

We have discussed this 40mm vs 50mm many times in the past and most of us
pretty much agree that unless you are using the big cams and upgraded
exhaust, the 40mm is better suited for street driving...better low end and
mid range...ya da ya da.  I can assure you that the 50mm has its place in
tuning of high performance engines.  I have the polished 40mm on my 2.0
(256s, Supersprint headers and exhaust system 2 1/4 back.  My 2.1 has
polished 50mm (276s, Supersprint headers and 2 1/2 back.  Most definately,
the 2.0 wins hands down off the line and up to about 85 mph...then the extra
breathing of the 50 mm and the 276s take hold and the 2.0 falls behind.
Bottom line...two very different mods  for different applications.  Use of
the NOS on the 2.1 is an expensive way to get the needed low end boost.

Dale Witt
86.5 2.0 16v roc
82 2.1 16v roc (Zender 400 w/NOS)
85 1.8 GTI


----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Van Sprewenburg" <brett@netacc.net>
To: <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: Velocity 16V Cam setup and 50mm manifold...


> >I just talked to someone at velocity about thier article in Eurpean Car
> >(ukk..i feel like a chump for buying that garbage)and the Shrick 260
intake
> >and 276 exhuast cam combo is $710.00! In case you havnt read the article
its
> >poorly written as with most thier articles and contains some interesting
> >dyno charts with different 16V cam set ups and they say how vital the
50mm
> >intake manifold. This was repeated by the rep on the phone with me,
velocity
> >sells the new 50mm intakes for 800.00. He said I would see an increase
with
> >the cam setup on my current motor but to truly realize the gain I needed
the
> >50mm manifold. The european car aritcle starts with a 9A 2.0 16V with a
> >mildly ported 1.8 head with a valve job and euro intake cam running
Motronic
> >chipped by GIAC. They state a 14hp increase running a TT race header and
the
> >50mm manifold. So, ymmv and this was a pretty built motor to start out
with.
> >
> >Shannon Fenton
>
> It's a rather bad article, I agree.  I'm still against the 50mm intake,
> as we all know that running the TT race header alone is probably worth
> a conservative 8-9 peak hp, and probably fattens up the midrange too.
> I mean, they went from a 50mm intake and a friggin' TT race header to
> the 40mm intake and a stock exhaust and lost 14 peak hp...well duh! :-)
> The 50mm intake is all about peak HP, couple that with a free flowing
> exhaust header and you make a more efficient air pump.
>
> Slap on that 50mm intake and you probably knock out the midrange gains
> made from the TT header and gain a whopping 5 more peak HP!  Only $800
> for super low end doggyness, and dump my mid range...where do I sign
up!?!?
>
> :-)!
>
> My only real world experience with the 50mm intake happened with Rich
> Deede's car.  His car had a 50mm intake, Supersprint header, Supersprint
> exhaust, 2L block, Schrick 266 cams, (ported head?) and stock 185/60
tires.
> My car had a 'normal' TT system with cat, bored 2L, Schrick 260 cams,
mildly
> ported head, Motronic with a Garrett chip, and 205/45 tires.  You'd think
> that Rich's car would probably walk away from mine with his slightly
> better gear ratio (due to lower tire diameter), and superior high end
> power delivered via the 50mm intake, header, and hotter cams....turned
> out not to be the case.  During several side-by-side highway roll ons,
> in 4th and 5th gear, our cars were totally even.  I mean really oddly
> even, strange even...to see the road / world rushing by at 100mph+ and
> the car next to you so totally still.  Ask Peter, he was there in
> Richs' car and Jim was in mine.
>
> Even the dorks at European car state that in conjunction with the right
> cams, header, and exhaust, the 50mm intake can be a winner.  I'm
> still of the mind that the same header, exhaust, cams and mildly ported
> head are probably making better power with the 40mm below 5000 rpms...is
> 5-7 peak hp worth it at 6700 rpm?  But this is all just my opinion,
> backed only by a small amount of experience, and knowledge of what seems
> to work.  Good discussion though.
>
> ==Brett
>
>  \/  '84 Scirocco (ITB racer 2B) | "Hot VW's, take two home. They're
small"
> \/\/ '88 Scirocco 16v (Show), '92 Passat 16v (Winter+) | -
brett@netacc.net
>
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