RE: Supercharged vs. Turbo

[Tim Ebling <tim@surreal.com>]

Point taken.  Indeed the book is old, but so are our cars...  I guess the
aim of my original question had to do with forced induction systems that one
could stuff into an A1.  While it may certainly be possible for someone to
make a newer turbo system work on a 16V (or 8V) Scirocco engine, I would
think the degree of customization required could make the task prohibitively
expensive.  Or maybe not.  Have you heard of anyone working a "new" turbo
system onto a Scirocco?

(Weeeee, ain't this fun?) :)

- -tim


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Crane, Damien [mailto:d3c@TENNANTCO.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 19, 1998 1:49 PM
> To: 'Scirocco Mail List'; Tim Ebling
> Subject: RE: Supercharged vs. Turbo
> 
> 
> I too am familiar with this book, and also think it is great. 
>  However, I
> don't agree with the authors opinion in the turbo vs super 
> debate.  Remember
> that this book was written a long time ago, and turbos have 
> come a long way.
> One look at the torque curve of the new 1AT engine (Audi 1.8 
> Turbo) compared
> to the Corrado G60 shows that low speed torque does not have to be a
> problem.  I have spent a lot of time driving a newer Saab 2.3 
> liter 16v
> turbo.  The lag was really non existant.  It felt like a 4 
> Liter engine.
> This really surprised me as I used to have a 900T with an 8 
> valve turbo
> (CIS).  Lag was bad.  It was annoying as hell to drive in 
> town.  The newer
> engine/management/turbo combination completely transformed 
> the feel of the
> newer car.  At one point I put 3000 miles on the car in a 
> week driving to
> and in the mountains.  Averaged 29mpg overall and over 80mph 
> on the freeway
> trips (1000 miles each way).  It convinced me that turbos can 
> be a very good
> thing.  Torque for the Saab was 258lb ft at 1900 rpm.  Audi 
> and Volvo have
> similar.  I really, really _really_ hope the A4 golf can be 
> had with the 1.8
> Turbo in this country.
> 
> Damien
> 
> > ----------
> > From: 	Tim Ebling[SMTP:tim@surreal.com]
> > Sent: 	Monday, October 19, 1998 2:52 PM
> > To: 	'Scirocco Mail List'
> > Subject: 	Supercharged vs. Turbo
> > 
> > 
> > Ok I know this is a debate that rages EVERYWHERE, but I 
> thought it'd be
> > relevant to bring it up now with the talk about 16V turbos.
> > 
> > At the Oktobugfest show yesterday (Puyallup, WA), I was 
> fortunate enough
> > to
> > pick up Greg Raven's "Watercooled Performance Handbook", 
> which someone
> > mentioned was out of print.  What a great book!  This guy 
> seems to really
> > know engines, not just from a practical standpoint, but 
> from a theoretical
> > and scientific standpoint as well.  Bottom line is, I was 
> impressed with
> > his
> > knowledge.
> > 
> > Anyway, a chapter in the book is devoted to turbos and 
> superchargers for
> > VW
> > engines up to 1989.  After reading this chapter, it was 
> quite clear that
> > he
> > favored the supercharger to the turbo.  In fact, he states 
> "Superchargers
> > are inherently better then a turbo for a street-driven 
> gasoline engine"
> > (p.
> > 108).  The main advantage he pointed out for the 
> supercharger was its
> > ability to provide equal boost throughout the RPM range, as 
> opposed to the
> > turbo which has to rely on a wastegate system to provide 
> this equalization
> > (and hence is not as efficient).  There's also the issue of 
> turbo lag
> > (spin-up time), which is nonexistent for the charger.  In 
> fact, the only
> > advantage he cites for the turbo is its ability to perform at high
> > altitudes.
> > 
> > Anyway, I realize this is one man's opinion (albeit an 
> educated one it
> > seems), and I'm sure there are plenty of turbo evangelists 
> out there (on
> > this list I'd imagine), but it does make me think.
> > 
> > So let the debate begin!  What do the folks with turbos or 
> are doing turbo
> > conversions think?  Is it simply a matter of the parts for 
> chargers not
> > being available?  I'm also concerned about the longevity factor of a
> > turbo.
> > Superchargers seem to be more reliable, which is why VW 
> chose to put a
> > G-lader on the Corrado instead of a turbo (which they did experiment
> > with)...
> > 
> > -tim
> > 
> > --
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> > 
> 
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