Re: G grind in DSP? <the real story>

[trnsfrma@ix.netcom.com (Shawn C. Meze)]

At 02:31 PM 2/28/97 -0700, you wrote:

I sat down with my parts guy (Mike Potter) and broke out the parts book and  
went over whats available for cams on JH motors, just for this thread. (Besides 
that, I wanted to know for my own know how.) Read on....


>>I have been told that I can use the G-Grind cam in SP.  Is this true.
>> The G-grind cam is supposed to be a stock replacment.


Wrong, it is a European cam. Never used in U.S. VW's. My parts guru cant find a 
listing for it anywhere.


>Ahh, I've heard of this one.  I am not sure.  I'll explain.  The rulebook
>reads like this - "engines, transaxles and transmissions may be
>updated/backdated, but must be replaced as a unit."  What this means is:
>You can use any part out of any Scirocco 8v (16v are CSP), but you must use
>engines/transmissions as a unit - SO, you CAN use a JH engine in your 80,
>but you CANNOT use a 1.6i cam in your JH.  If you want the JH, you have to
>use the cam, pistons, crank, etc.  That make sense?  Aftermarket cams are
>illegal.


Right, to update to the JH, you must use the entire engine, not just peices.


>OK, here's how some people rationialize this.  If you go to VW and buy a
>solid lifter cam, for a 75 carb rabbit OR an 84 GTI OR a 1.7 Scirocco, you
>get the same camshaft.  There are at least 3 cams that VW made for the
>solid lifter engine;
>
>1.6i - cam1
>1.7i - cam2
>1.8i - cam3


Right, but for our discussion, im only gonna talk about the JH motor since the 
best anyone can do for autox purposes is use the JH engine. Discussing the 
other cams gets confusing. 



>Ok, so there might be a specific cam for the 1.5i solid lifter engine,
>dunno.  Basically, if you look up (in VW microfiche) a 1.6 Scirocco, you'll
>see that it calls for Cam1.  If you look up an 84 GTI, you'll see that it
>calls for Cam3.  If you *order* a cam for *ANY* solid lifter head, you wind
>up with the same camshaft - I believe it to be the original 1.6i cam.  SO,
>it is legal for me to use the 1.6 cam in my JH, *IF* I have the
>documentation to prove that the 1.6 cam is the ONLY cam available FROM vw
>FOR my car - if you go to the dealer and say "give me a cam for the JH
>engine" you'll get the 1.6 cam.  


No you wont. You will get the cam with the last leter being "J". That cam is 
solely used in all the JH motors and only that cam. 



>Is the 1.6i cam the same as the Hor g grind that some people are using?  I
>doubt it.  Is the 1.6i cam the same as the factory Euro G grind?  I doubt
>it.  I believe the euro-g to be more aggresive than the factory US 1.6 cam.
>If you put a FACTORY Euro G grind in your car, you *MIGHT* get away with
>it.  Maybe.  I don't know.  If it is the same as the 1.6 us cam, yes.  The
>SCCA has a "cam doctor" which measures lift and duration - then matches
>your cam with specs from VW (which you are responsible to have).  If they
>do not match, you're out.



These are very good questions. Id like to know exactly what the differences are 
between the HOR "G" grind and the european "G" grind cams and the stock "J" 
cam. I sopose they are the exact same (Euro "G" and HOR "G") but who is to know 
for sure unless somebody measures them. I do know that my HOR "G" cam has VW 
part numbers on the camshaft. I dont know if that was intentionally put there 
for whatever reasons or if it was an actual Euro "G" grind cam that was bought 
and resold by HOR, I dunno. I ws inder the impression that HOR made their own 
cams, but that doesnt mean anything. 



>Mannix (PS - my GTI cam is a better autocross cam than my G grind, anyway -
>more torque.  I have used the 1.6 cam recently, and it is a great
>compromise - good torque, and it does not run out of breath above 5500 rpm
>- when it all comes together, I'll be using the 1.6;)


I noted the cams and their stock engine applications, if anybody was 
interested. If not, delete it. Eh!

84-89 JH Motors "J" cam 
erlier carb engines "C" cam
 1.6L is a "N" cam. 
 1.7L is a "K" cam

We werent able to check availability of the "J" cams, so this may be something 
to look as far as fudging the rules to work for us! Maybe. Maybe not.

If anybody has anything to add, please do. 


Shawn
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