Electric Vehicle (EV) Conversion Scirocco

[camron at worldaccessnet.com (Camron D. Crouse)]

david@thinkology.org wrote:

>>  Looking pretty sweet!  So much roooom in that engine bay!  I don't really
>>know much about EV and conversions, although I've been trying to read up about
> 
> it somewhat lately.
> 
>>Plug-in hybrids (PHEVs)
>>sound pretty cool, too, though I don't think any major auto manufacturers are
>>working towards
>>anything just yet... certainly nothing high performance.
> 
> 
> I've pretty much given up on a major car manufacturer making anything that isn't
> still fossil fuel dependant in the US.  I've heard that in Europe, the Prius
> comes with a swith to where you can use the electric motor only until the
> batteries run out of charge, and it then switches to gas after that.  You can
> add a plug-in charger to charge the bank.  If people modify their cars to do
> that here (which they do), it invalidates their warranty.
> 
> 
>>I have so many questions about your project.  First off, are you a Scirocco
>>nut like the rest of us, or was this car just convenient to do this project?
> 
> 
> Both, I was looking for an A1 VW for the conversion because of all the stuff
> that's made for converting them.  The one I found for sale locally happened to
> be this car, which I picked up for $500.  The engine bay is a lot larger than
> any of the other A1's which will make fitting all the batteries in there a lot
> easier.  A cabriolet would have made a nice doner also, and I would have
> settled for a rabbit if it was in decent shape at a good price too.
> 
> 
>>How powerful is your motor?
> 
> 
> Its sort hard to compare electric to gas, they rate the horse power different
> and the torque curve starts high and goes low (which is better).  The 9" would
> have given me more power, but I'm not really going for performance so much with
> this car.
> 
> 
>>Will it outperform the 16V that you removed?
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt it.  High performance ev controllers and stuff starts getting
> really expensive.  I've been trying to see how cost effectively I could do this
> conversion for without sacrificing anything major, and resisting the temptation
> to spend a lot on something that isn't essential.
> 
> 
>>What is your battery setup going to be?
> 
> 
> I was looking at having a 96V bank of 6V lead acid batteries from Trojan or US
> Battery, but the link you sent looks promising! I've requested more info from
> them.  Even if they cost 2 or 3 times more, it would save me quite a bit right
> off the bat from not having to beef up the suspension for the weight of lead
> acid.  Plus I wouldn't have to worry about venting hydrogen from the rear back
> when charging.
> 
> 
>>What is your expected range?
> 
> 
> I'm not 100% until I finish it, I think it will probably be around 50 to 60
> miles.  Considing I rarely drive more than that in a day is what made me think
> that electric was the way to go.  I'd like to have a diesel caddy as my backup
> vehicle at some point.
> 
> 
>>How fast can you recharge?
> 
> 
> I haven't gotten this far along yet.  It depends partially on the charger you
> get and whether you have a 110 or 220V power source for it.  I think a basic
> 15A 110V charger will charge about 75% of the bank in the first 2 hours and
> then the remaining 25% after about 6 more hours (basically overnight).  But I
> don't have any direct experience with this.
> 
> 
>>Do you get regen braking?
> 
> 
>>From what I understand, this is a possibility with AC systems (see Electro
> Automotive), but in general it is way more expensive and complicated to
> integrate this than its worth.  If most of your driving is hw or country roads,
> the added range probably wouldn't even be noticable.
> 
> 
>>What made you decide on keeping your transaxle/clutch/flywheel instead of
> 
> direct drive (easier to incorporate, I suspect)?
> 
> Basically the same reason you don't have your gas engine on direct drive.  You'd
> only be able to go as fast as a go cart.  Plus you don't want to let the ev
> motors go to as high an rpm as a gas engine can.  I'm pretty sure there are
> some more optimal gear ratios to use with the electric motor, but I'm sure
> having a custom transmission made isn't cheap at all.  I think there is a
> pretty good faq on electro automotive's website that talks about stuff like
> that.
> 
> 
>>Is the vacuum pump for powered accessories?
> 
> 
> Primarily for the brakes, also for the ventalation system.
> 
> 
>>I see you've spent the dough on getting the interior redone, are you planning
>>on an exterior restore, too?
> 
> 
> I haven't spent that much, I did all the interior work myself.  I'll probably
> have only spent a 1000-1500 total on restoring the interior and exterior
> including money spent on restoring the brakes, suspension, and electrical
> system.  So the total amount I've spent on on-EV related stuff (i.e. the car
> itself) should be under $2000.
> 
> 
>>What will this project cost, and would you end up with more hp per dollar (or
>>less) than if you had put in a highly-tuned gas engine (p&p, turbo, EDIS, EMS,
>>etc.)?
> 
> 
> EV definitely isn't the way to go if you want performance for the dollar.  The
> total I'm trying to do everything for under $8000.  I might pull it off for
> under $7000.  That includes the $1500 spent restoring the car itself.  Compared
> to the price of a new car or hybrid, that's pretty good especially considering
> there are way less things to spend money on maintaining compared to gas, and
> way less things to break.
> 
> If I wanted an insanely fast car, I'd buy or build something like the Ariel
> Atom.  Performs like a Enzo for under $40k and is faster than a motorcycle on a
> track.  Lightweight, low to the ground, and small is the key.
> 
> 
>>Seems to me that with advances in fast recharges, hi-capacity LiOn Batteries,
>>ultracapacitors, and
>>regen braking, plus powerful electric motors, that the time for a truly
>>sweet, high performance,
>>long-range electric powered car at a reasonable price is nearly upon us.
> 
> 
> I've been hoping a new battery technology would get available or cheaper by the
> time I got to that part.  But I haven't been overly optimistic until I followed
> your link. Alternative energy folks have been been listening to news about new
> battery technologies that might replace lead acid for the last 30 years, but
> nothing has ever materialized in all that time so far.
> 
> 
>>Keep us updated!
>>
>>- Camron from Vancouver, WA USA
>>    '86.5 Black 16V 2.0L
> 

Wow, thanks for indulging me!  Looks like an excellent experiment.  As an FYI, you can read on the 
AC Propulsion website an article talking about how they had worked with VW in '98 to build a 
prototype AC-powered Golf.  I wonder what became of that project... 
<http://acpropulsion.com/Press%20releases/VW_EVS15.htm>

I also love this story of their 2003 trip to Las Vegas from San Dimas (245 miles) on new LiOn cells 
<http://acpropulsion.com/ACP_tzero/SEMAtrip2003.htm> with 40 miles capacity to spare.  I believe 
they were using standard-cell batteries (apparently a little larger than AA's) though, not the new 
Valence 12V batts now on the market.  Heck, I can barely even get 250 miles on one tank in my 2.0 
16V!  Nothing gets me juiced up for EV like reading the cool stuff those guys are doing.


- Camron from Vancouver, WA USA
    '86.5 Black 16V 2.0L

PS I don't know why, but my copies to Scirocco-l@scirocco.org are bouncing back to me...