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New rear stress bar
Several years ago I remember reading about a group of mechanical engineers
that set up what I think were piezoelectric sensors on an A1 VW (a
Rabbit?) to see if the shock towers were really flexing during hard
cornering.
I think they observed movement of around 1/16" during full-lock parking
lot turns at 5-10 mph. I can't recall the rest of their findings.
As far as subjective feel - I too have noticed a difference from the front
bar(s) - both the upper and the lower made a perceptible difference on
my mk2. I have no experience with the rear bar.
I wouldn't classify them as "must", but they certainly help the front end
feel tighter. And they just might keep your shock towers from cracking.
Then again, these effects might just be due to added weight up front..
:)
-Toby
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, David Utley wrote:
> I have to disagree with you here, Larry (much to my peril). While I can
> only offer my reasoning and my experience, I do stand by both.
>
> My reasoning is, that these cars are light, and therefore they are
> f-l-e-x-I-b-l-e. The guage steel used in them is thinner than any other
> car, especially lighter than one made with a subframe. Anyone here that has
> owned or at least driven a MkII Golf or later version, will attest that
> although the structure of the car and the design of the suspension is very
> similar, there is a huge difference between a MkI and a MkII in the way that
> they drive. The difference can be explained by the addition of the subframe
> itself. The subframe is very stout, with a gauge of steel much thicker than
> the rest of the car. That subframe is in effect a large stressbar. Now
> although the subframes do double duty, having both the engine and suspension
> mounted to them, those cars in stock form handle more flatly than a Mk1.
> However, they also lose the most endearing feature of the Mk1, the feedback
> from the road...
>
> My experience is, that stressbars help. I have driven cars with and
> without stressbars, and I can feel the difference, easily. So much so, if I
> did not inspect a car before driving it, I could tell you whether it had
> them on the car or not, front and/or rear. I have experimented at length
> with the Neuspeed rear triangulated bar in my GTI. I could feel the
> difference between just having it installed at the strut towers, just
> fastened at the floor, just mounted at the R/R bumper mount, or any
> combination. I did finally give up the Neuspeed design though, as the space
> I lost was to valuable. I will in the future get an Autotech rear bar, as I
> can handle that loss. It should be noted that that bar uses Poly rear
> mounts instead of rubber (on the uppers at least)...
>
> Larry, I really think you ought to try a bar, just for shits and
> giggles... I would bet you that you will feel the difference, if you like
> hard, crisp cornering anyways. After all, if these cars did not bend in
> tight turns, the Rabbit would have been named something else altogether.
> The reason it got its name is because of it's tendency to lift the inside
> rear wheel in hard tight turns...
>
> David Utley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org
> [mailto:scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of L F
> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:42 PM
> To: Jeff Toomasson; ATS - Patrick Bureau; scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> Subject: Re: New rear stress bar
>
> Since the rear stress bar bolts to the top of the rear shock, it does
> nothing to keep the chassis from flexing. The rear towers could still move
> around the rubber-mounted suspension units.
> In effect, the stress bar is rubber-mounted.....and a whole heck of a lot
> of good THAT does. This is a situation duplicated with all the rear
> stress bars I've seen.
>
> In addition, lateral cornering loads are all absorbed by the rear axle
> mounting points....none of the loads go up through the two flexible shock
> mountings (lower and upper) into the body. It's possible that vertical
> stresses in that area can cause the towers to move side-to-side slightly,
> put that wouldn't affect handling to any degree.
>
> Realistically, rear stress bars serve no mechanical function.
> (looking at the designs of all the front stress bars and the way the A1's
> are built, I have my doubts that any of the commercially-available fronts do
> a heck of a lot either....)
>
> Ergo; Scirocco suspension design doesn't result in rear shock towers moving
> AND the normal bar wouldn't stop the movement even if it did occur.
> Save yer money.
>
> Larry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Toomasson
> To: ATS - Patrick Bureau ; scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:41 AM
> Subject: Re: New rear stress bar
>
>
> he'd better come up with a better description than that if he wants to try
> to sell a supposed high performance part that no one/few have ever seen...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ATS - Patrick Bureau>
> To: <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 6:33 AM
> Subject: New rear stress bar
>
>
> > Anyone seen these on the web, they look interesting considering the
> shape
> > (looks to be triangular bar) and the price.
> >
> >
> <http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2462969376>
> > --
> > ---
> > ATS - Patrick Bureau - Web site : http://ats.longcoeur.com
> > AIM: texasscirocco - Yahoo: atsgtx - ICQ: 32918816 - MSN:
> atsgtx@hotmail.com
> > See what I am selling today on ebay: http://tinyurl.com/22e5b
> >
> > ________________________________________________
> > This mail was sent by UebiMiau 2.5
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
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>
>
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