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burning oil?
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Thermostats use a wax pellet. =20
Whether a low-temp 'stat will let your engine run cooler depends on =
whether your radiator has excess cooling capacity or not. If it does, =
your engine will run cooler. If it does not, your engine will run at =
the temp that it stabilizes at, as determined by rad capacity to lose =
heat and the engine's heat output.
Larry
----- Original Message -----=20
From: T. Reed=20
To: Michael Abatzis=20
Cc: scirocco-l@scirocco.org=20
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: burning oil?
Okay, this is a common debate - whether or not a low temp thermo will
affect your "final" engine temperature or just cause your engine to =
take
longer to warm up.
My answer is of course that it will.. thermostats are generally
bimetallic strips containing two metals with different coefficients of
expansion. In this design, the thermostat "valve" action is =
continuously
variable, not a discrete on/off behavior. So unless the engine =
temperature
is significantly above the temperatures of both thermostats, a low =
temp
and a normal temp thermostat will behave differently (ie. be open
different amounts at the same temperature). Different behavior causes =
a
different result. Namely, that the low temp thermo runs colder.
By the way I do have a low temp fan switch and the thermo they gave me =
was
the lowest I've found - 71 C compared to stock (87 C).. that's almost =
a
30 F difference. Trust me my car runs icy cold all the time, unless =
like I
said I drive it hard then idle it for 20 minutes. Even after it warms =
up
that way if I start to drive it again the temp will quickly drop to =
icy
cold again.
Initially I didn't mind the lower temps but now with my engine burning =
oil
and my heater barely functioning I bit the bullet and bought a new =
water
pump and thermostat.
Before I put the 2.0 in I had a standard thermo and I replaced it as a
precaution - the parts place gave me the low temp one on accident but =
I
decided to try it anyway. With the 1.8 my temp shot up to the LED and
stayed there after about 3 minutes. It occasionally rose above the LED
during the summer in traffic.. but generally stayed right at the LED.
I've also read in the past that the 16v motors were designed to run =
hot.
Anyway, I just wanted comments on my theory. I did a little web =
"research"
on the topic and several sources I found (who knows how credible they =
are,
but..) say that putting in too cold of a thermostat will cause =
increased
fuel and oil consumption and engine wear. Reasons cited included
expansion/contraction of rings and valve seals..
The only good thing that has come out of this is I finally got off my
keister and installed seat heaters in my seats. More info on that =
soon..
-Toby
On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Michael Abatzis wrote:
> don't see why the low temp thermo would do that. once the thermo's =
open,
> it's open; the water just goes to the radiator earlier. the engine =
should
> still get up to normal temperature. only way i see that that would =
have an
> effect is if you also had a low temp fan switch AND you were doing a =
lot of
> city driving.
>
>
> -Michael Abatzis
> Hotlanta! GA
> 1988 Scirocco 2L 16v RIP-->parting, finally taking orders:
> www.learnlink.emory.edu/~mabatzi/mikes_page1.html
> 1987 Scirocco 2L 16v...
>
>
> >From: "T. Reed" <treed2@u.washington.edu>
>
> >
> >That was my theory until today when it occurred to me that when I =
did the
> >engine swap they gave me a 71 C (super low temp) thermostat instead =
of the
> >standard thermo I asked for. I've been driving the car with it out =
of
> >laziness (don't want to bother draining the coolant just to change =
it) but
> >the side effect is that the car never warms up. It always stays =
very very
> >cold, in fact my heat barely works at full blast after 1/2 hour of
> >driving. The only time the car warms up is if its been taken for a =
hard
> >drive and then I stop and idle it for 20 minutes. Then it will come =
up to
> >what I consider "normal" operating temperature - the water temp =
needle at
> >the LED on the gauge.
> >
> >after that, I guess. But in the mean time.. should I be reading up =
on
> >valve seals and what kind of a job that is or do you think my =
theory has
> >any validity?
> >
> >-Toby
> >
>
_______________________________________________
Scirocco-l mailing list
Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thermostats use a wax pellet. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Whether a low-temp 'stat will let your =
engine run=20
cooler depends on whether your radiator has excess cooling capacity or=20
not. If it does, your engine will run cooler. If it does =
not, your=20
engine will run at the temp that it stabilizes at, as determined by rad =
capacity=20
to lose heat and the engine's heat output.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Larry</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:treed2@u.washington.edu"; =
title=3Dtreed2@u.washington.edu>T.=20
Reed</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:abatzis2@hotmail.com"=20
title=3Dabatzis2@hotmail.com>Michael Abatzis</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:scirocco-l@scirocco.org"=20
title=3Dscirocco-l@scirocco.org>scirocco-l@scirocco.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 24, 2003 =
4:24=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: burning oil?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Okay, this is a common debate - whether or not a low =
temp=20
thermo will<BR>affect your "final" engine temperature or just cause =
your=20
engine to take<BR>longer to warm up.<BR><BR>My answer is of course =
that it=20
will.. thermostats are generally<BR>bimetallic strips containing two =
metals=20
with different coefficients of<BR>expansion. In this design, the =
thermostat=20
"valve" action is continuously<BR>variable, not a discrete on/off =
behavior. So=20
unless the engine temperature<BR>is significantly above the =
temperatures of=20
both thermostats, a low temp<BR>and a normal temp thermostat will =
behave=20
differently (ie. be open<BR>different amounts at the same =
temperature).=20
Different behavior causes a<BR>different result. Namely, that the low =
temp=20
thermo runs colder.<BR><BR>By the way I do have a low temp fan switch =
and the=20
thermo they gave me was<BR>the lowest I've found - 71 C compared to =
stock (87=20
C).. that's almost a<BR>30 F difference. Trust me my car runs icy cold =
all the=20
time, unless like I<BR>said I drive it hard then idle it for 20 =
minutes. Even=20
after it warms up<BR>that way if I start to drive it again the temp =
will=20
quickly drop to icy<BR>cold again.<BR><BR>Initially I didn't mind the =
lower=20
temps but now with my engine burning oil<BR>and my heater barely =
functioning I=20
bit the bullet and bought a new water<BR>pump and =
thermostat.<BR><BR>Before I=20
put the 2.0 in I had a standard thermo and I replaced it as =
a<BR>precaution -=20
the parts place gave me the low temp one on accident but I<BR>decided =
to try=20
it anyway. With the 1.8 my temp shot up to the LED and<BR>stayed there =
after=20
about 3 minutes. It occasionally rose above the LED<BR>during the =
summer in=20
traffic.. but generally stayed right at the LED.<BR><BR>I've also read =
in the=20
past that the 16v motors were designed to run hot.<BR><BR>Anyway, I =
just=20
wanted comments on my theory. I did a little web "research"<BR>on the =
topic=20
and several sources I found (who knows how credible they =
are,<BR>but..) say=20
that putting in too cold of a thermostat will cause increased<BR>fuel =
and oil=20
consumption and engine wear. Reasons cited =
included<BR>expansion/contraction=20
of rings and valve seals..<BR><BR>The only good thing that has come =
out of=20
this is I finally got off my<BR>keister and installed seat heaters in =
my=20
seats. More info on that soon..<BR><BR>-Toby<BR><BR>On Mon, 24 Feb =
2003,=20
Michael Abatzis wrote:<BR><BR>> don't see why the low temp thermo =
would do=20
that. once the thermo's open,<BR>> it's open; the water just goes =
to the=20
radiator earlier. the engine should<BR>> still get up to normal=20
temperature. only way i see that that would have an<BR>> effect is =
if you=20
also had a low temp fan switch AND you were doing a lot of<BR>> =
city=20
driving.<BR>><BR>><BR>> -Michael Abatzis<BR>> Hotlanta! =
GA<BR>>=20
1988 Scirocco 2L 16v RIP-->parting, finally taking orders:<BR>> =
<A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.learnlink.emory.edu/~mabatzi/mikes_page1.html";>www.lea=
rnlink.emory.edu/~mabatzi/mikes_page1.html</A><BR>>=20
1987 Scirocco 2L 16v...<BR>><BR>><BR>> >From: "T. Reed" =
<<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:treed2@u.washington.edu";>treed2@u.washington.edu</A>><B=
R>><BR>>=20
><BR>> >That was my theory until today when it occurred to me =
that=20
when I did the<BR>> >engine swap they gave me a 71 C (super low =
temp)=20
thermostat instead of the<BR>> >standard thermo I asked for. =
I've been=20
driving the car with it out of<BR>> >laziness (don't want to =
bother=20
draining the coolant just to change it) but<BR>> >the side =
effect is=20
that the car never warms up. It always stays very very<BR>> =
>cold, in=20
fact my heat barely works at full blast after 1/2 hour of<BR>> =
>driving.=20
The only time the car warms up is if its been taken for a hard<BR>> =
>drive and then I stop and idle it for 20 minutes. Then it will =
come up=20
to<BR>> >what I consider "normal" operating temperature - the =
water temp=20
needle at<BR>> >the LED on the gauge.<BR>> ><BR>> =
>after=20
that, I guess. But in the mean time.. should I be reading up =
on<BR>>=20
>valve seals and what kind of a job that is or do you think my =
theory=20
has<BR>> >any validity?<BR>> ><BR>> >-Toby<BR>>=20
=
><BR>><BR><BR><BR><BR>_____________________________________________=
__<BR>Scirocco-l=20
mailing list<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:Scirocco-l@scirocco.org";>Scirocco-l@scirocco.org</A><BR><A=
=20
=
href=3D"http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l";>http://neubayer=
n.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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