Knock Sensor Q

[drew@dyermaker.cs.uoguelph.ca (drew)]

Actually, 10:1 engines need knock boxes because we have crappy gas... :)
VW did sell a number of high compression models in some countries (UK for
example - home of the leaded petrol holdout) without knock sensor
ignitions.

Without an ignition brain (be it the knock box of a Cis-e install) or
ignition smarts found in the motronic or digifant systems you will not
have an electronic rev limiter.  I thought I recalled some discussion
of a mecahnical rev limiter in the rotor of something, but that sounds 
way too complicated and unreliable to actually be true, so I'm
guessing it was just hearsay... :)  Of course, I could be wrong.  

Your stock 85 has KE-Jetronic fuel injection (AKA CIS-K lambda, or cis
with O2 feedback loop) but only TCI-H (transisitor controlled
ignition-Hall equipped) ignition.  You can rev that mill as high as it
will rev, but no more... :)

Drew

On Fri, 24 May 2002, ATS - Patrick Bureau wrote:

> scirocco 8v do not need knock boxes no, but jetta/golf 8v use them because
> their engines are 10.5:1 compression engine (interference engines) and that
> is why 8v knock box exist. :)
> 
> now I do have one last question here.
> 
> if my car curently does not have a knock box, does this mean my little 8v
> has no rev limitator ?
> 
> ==========================================
> ATS - Patrick Bureau
> 1985 8v **Planning 3A/JH  Upgrade**
> 1988 16v ** FOR SALE : 1500.00$ **
> Web Site : http://longcoeur.com/scirocco
> 
> 
> =>-----Original Message-----
> =>From: scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org
> =>[mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Wm. Josiah Erikson
> =>Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 10:31 AM
> =>To: ATS - Patrick Bureau
> =>Cc: Jonas K.; scirocco list; Chris DeLong
> =>Subject: RE: Knock Sensor Q
> =>
> =>
> =>Maybe I missed something, but Scirocco 8v's don't have knock boxes.
> =>	-Josiah
> =>
> =>
> =>On Thu, 23 May 2002, ATS - Patrick Bureau wrote:
> =>
> =>> you know I read your replies 3 times... and you make no sense
> =>what so ever.
> =>>
> =>> 1. you are saying that the 8v and 16v knock box are the same
> =>(or you don't
> =>> know)
> =>> 2. then you say the relay has nothing to do with it, but the cut off is
> =>> controlled by the knock box
> =>>
> =>> now if the knock boxes are the same and the relays are not the
> =>controlling
> =>> device, how does the
> =>> knock box know its controlling an 8v (6800Rpm) or 16v engine
> =>(7200 rpm) and
> =>> adjust itself to the proper engine?
> =>>
> =>> what I want to know is
> =>> what controls the rev limitation (knock box? relay?) if knock box, then
> =>> logic dictates that an 8v and 16v knock box would be different
> =>JUST because
> =>> they rev limitator are set different  (no matter if they are
> =>wired the same)
> =>>
> =>> and btw.. I am talking about SCIROCCO here not A2.
> =>>
> =>>
> =>>
> =>> ==========================================
> =>> ATS - Patrick Bureau
> =>> 1985 8v **Planning 3A/JH  Upgrade**
> =>> 1988 16v ** FOR SALE : 1500.00$ **
> =>> Web Site : http://longcoeur.com/scirocco
> =>>
> =>>
> =>> =>-----Original Message-----
> =>> =>From: scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org
> =>> =>[mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Jonas K.
> =>> =>Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 12:47 PM
> =>> =>To: ATS - Patrick Bureau; scirocco list; Chris DeLong
> =>> =>Subject: Re: Knock Sensor Q
> =>> =>
> =>> =>
> =>> =>I'll jump in here to see if I can help,
> =>> =>
> =>> =>On 5/21/02 8:35 AM, "ATS - Patrick Bureau" <pbureau@attbi.com> wrote:
> =>> =>>
> =>> =>> 1. so you are saying that a 8v and 16v knock box are the same
> =>> =>identical box?
> =>> =>
> =>> =>I've got no friggin clue (I know, lots of help...). Simple to
> =>figure out
> =>> =>though. Someone with a A2 bentley needs just look at the 8v
> =>vs 16v knock
> =>> =>sensor connections. If they match up, you're good to go. I would think
> =>> =>they're the same.
> =>> =>
> =>> =>> 2. get a 16v fuel relay because it runs up to 7200
> =>> =>
> =>> =>AFAIK the actual relay has nothing to do with it. The Knock box has an
> =>> =>output to trigger the relay, similar as how the coil would do for
> =>> =>A1's. Once
> =>> =>the RPM's have exceeded a preset value (7200 for 16v and
> =>6k-something for
> =>> =>8v) then the box shuts off fuel through the FPR.
> =>> =>
> =>> =>> 3. because I have an 85, I will need to cut lead 11 to
> =>prevent cut off @
> =>> =>> 6800 EVEN if I use a 16v FP relay ?
> =>> =>
> =>> =>No, your 85 is not like the 85 system he refers to. He's
> =>talking about the
> =>> =>GTI knock box, where you can cut a wire to bump up the rev limiter.
> =>> =>Otherwise the fun stops at around 6k-even.
> =>> =>
> =>> =>To install a knock system in your 85 scirocco, you'll want to
> =>leave your
> =>> =>original fuel pump relay, and now you won't have a
> =>rev-limiter. Simple as
> =>> =>that. Theres a neat wiring diagram at
> =>>
> =>=><http://www.volkswagen.org/EngineSwap/Knock%20Sensor%20Diagram%20II.JPG>
> =>> =>Notice that there's no connection to the FPR.
> =>> =>
> =>> =>HTH,
> =>> =>Jonas
> =>> =>
> =>> =>
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> =>>
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> =>--
> =>'87 5KCSTQW
> =>'84 GTi
> =>http://insanetechnology.com
> =>
> =>
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> 
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Drew MacPherson - '84 Wolfsburg Edition Scirocco TurboDiesel