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H&R G Springs



Now before we start making "disparaging remarks", he could do this by
fitting new control arm mounting points higher up on the body. But then that
generates the question of cost not to mention the added weight of the new
mounting points. And there would be new issues, ground clearance and the
loss of some foot well area. All said and done the question still remains...
WHY?

Just face up to the fact that our cars don't lend themselves to being
slammed.

Rick Alexander
http://www.brubakerbox.com
http://clubs.hemmings.com/hams/
http://clubs.hemmings.com/vwsrus/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry" <rocco16v@netzero.com>
To: "Vince Royer" <vince@performancecarstereo.com>; "Allyn"
<amalventano1@comcast.net>; "Scott F. Williams" <sfwilliams@comcast.net>
Cc: "Scirocco List" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: H&R G Springs


>
>   Anybody know exactly how much drop makes them sit horizontal?
>
> ***Vince, I dropped my front suspension about 3/4" and the arms are very,
> very close to parallel.***
>
> > That's the reason I'm thinking about the taller upper mounts. That would
> > essentially act like a body drop. It would make the body sit lower on
the
> > suspension, without changing anything about the suspension.
>
> ***Sorry, but that will change the suspension geometry just the same as
> running shorter springs.***
>       The only way to drop the car and retain suspension travel is to fit
> 12" wheels/35-series tires, but then we'd have to start making disparaging
> remarks about low-riders.....  :)
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>  The only issue
> > would be tire rub, but I'm only on 15s, and I never plan to go any
bigger.
> >
> > Keep it coming!
> >
> > vince, here is an example:
> > i had a set of neuspeed 8v softsports which i moved over to a 16v. the
> extra
> > weight made the ride
> > height about an extra inch lower. also of note is that the added weight
> put
> > teh softsports at their
> > higher spring rate all the time (similar to what you wanted to do -
raise
> > the spring rate). the 16v
> > ended up lowered a total of about 2.5" over stock. It drove like
complete
> > crap! sure i had no
> > trouble on the highway, besides the fact that hitting lane reflectors
made
> > the car shutter. i had to
> > keep the konis adjusted pretty firm to prevent bottoming the car
> constantly
> > in city driving. more
> > importantly, the car had bad signs of bump steer. it wasnt the decent
type
> > of bump steer that
> > actually helps keep a fwd car under control, it was the opposite effect
> > (this was due to the fact
> > that the a-arms were pointing upwards, which throws a major wrench in
the
> > suspension geometry). the
> > car was just plain terrible to drive, and i had SOME suspension travel.
> your
> > plan will put you at
> > NONE. you've gotta face it, man, the car just wasnt made to sit that
low.
> > suspension travel needs
> > more credit for what its actually doing. any car driving down the road
> uses
> > a good inch of travel on
> > a constant basis. this inch is being used by shock-type impacts which on
> > your setup would be
> > absorbed directly by the frame. an a1 scirocco frame will tolerate that
> > abuse by converting _itself_
> > into the extra travel (i.e. weak points, cracks, splits, etc).
> > please man, dont do it, not if you plan on driving it on the street.
> > Al
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Vince Royer" <vince@performancecarstereo.com>
> > To: "Scott F. Williams" <sfwilliams@comcast.net>
> > Cc: "Scirocco List" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 12:26 PM
> > Subject: RE: H&R G Springs
> >
> >
> > > Ok, I need to explain my situation.  I live downtown vancouver and
> > > unfortunately I hardly get to actually "drive" the car agressively.
Even
> > if
> > > I had the chance, I would most certainly get busted by one of the
> million
> > > cops in this city and probably be sent to jail.  Yes, around here you
> can
> > > actually get sent to jail. So if I loose some travel it's not the end
of
> > the
> > > world to me, it will most likely just slow me down which is a good
> thing.
> > > Keep in mind, right now the car is on cut factory spings with shocks
> that
> > > feel like they blew up about 10 years ago. It is constantly bottomed
> out.
> > > So by getting nice stiff springs, and brand new shocks, couldn't
things
> > only
> > > improve? The springs I'm getting offer a 2" drop, and with them being
A2
> > > springs will more realistically give me a 2.5" drop.  However, my car
is
> a
> > > lot lighter than an A2 so it would most likely ride about 2" lower
than
> > > factory.
> > >
> > > So I think I've got the height right.  I just don't want it to bottom
> out
> > > when I hit a bump going around the odd cloverleaf overpass.  So I
> thought
> > I
> > > had the formula right.  Stiff springs with lots of damping.
> > >
> > > What do you think of those taller upper mounts that give you an extra
> inch
> > > of travel?  Would this be a good application for those?  I hate how
> > > Scirocco's have no front travel and boatloads of rear travel.
> > >
> > > Anyways, keep talkin... I'd like to hear more.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This is a recipe for disaster, my man. Slamming your car may look good
> to
> > > you, but it will render your car nearly useless for driving on real
> > streets.
> > > A major problem with our cars is that they were not blessed with
enough
> > > suspension travel. In fact, we only got about 3" from the factory.
> > Slamming
> > > your car that low will essentially remove *all* available travel.
> > >
> > > This isn't just about using a high enough spring rate to keep the car
> from
> > > bottoming. In fact, if you drop the car that far you won't even need
any
> > > springs because the damper's pistons will *be* your bumpstops! In
order
> to
> > > go that low you'll be forced to install dampers with shortened shafts.
> > This
> > > will provide more critical compression travel, but will eliminate the
> same
> > > amount of droop travel. -not good at all...
> > >
> > > Keep in mind, also, that your car will handle and ride like utter
crap.
> > The
> > > likelihood of chassis, suspension, and wheel/tire failure will be
> greatly
> > > increased. Every pebble and paint strip on the ground will launch your
> car
> > > into the air. Clearing speed bumps without punching your struts
through
> > the
> > > hood will be a challenge. Just forget about playing CDs... My advice
is
> to
> > > drop your car a maximum of 1.5". That is, *if* you care at all about
how
> > the
> > > thing drives on the street.
> > >
> > > If all this will be is a show car... then do whatever you want and
don't
> > > even worry about your spring rates. Why bother to optimize a situation
> > that
> > > can't be helped? This is like giving a suicide bomber a physical exam
> > before
> > > sending him on his mission.
> > >
> > > > My question (finally) is this:  What kind of shock should I get
> > > > to dampen these springs?  I don't have a huge budget but I want
> > something
> > > > that will handle being slammed for a few years.  Also, I ordered
some
> > > > new upper strut mounts at the same time, is there anything else I
> should
> > > do?
> > >
> > > What you're attempting to do is foolish -not to mention impossible.
> Either
> > > build the car for shows or build it to actually function. As much as I
> > > question the validity of coilovers for the street, you seem like a
great
> > > candidate for them. Drop the thing all the way down once you get to
your
> > > parking spot and crank'm back up on the way out.
> > >
> > > What you really should do (you asked) is decide on whether you are a
> > driver
> > > or a parker and build your car to suit. I realize that this advice may
> > > disappoint you. It may even sound overly conservative. It's your
> > perogative
> > > to heed these warnings or follow them. Just, make sure you have fun
> either
> > > way!
> > > --
> > > Scott F. Williams
> > > NJ Scirocco nut
> > > '99 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS
> > > Mazda 323 GTX turbo "assaulted" vehicle
> > > Golf GTI 16v "rollycar"
> > > ClubVAC: "Roads found. Drivers wanted."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
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> > >
> > >
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> >
> >
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>
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