Re: Could be simple question on gear ratios..

[16V Jason <jason@scirocco.org>]

At 05:40 PM 10/31/2001, Brian Wagner wrote:
>Jason,
>
>Did the Roc in Germany use the same transmission and gearing as the units 
>that were imported. Based on what I have learned from working for Nissan, 
>the US doesn't always get the good shit until years later.

To the best of my knowledge, it did.  There was a 129hp version of the 
engine available, but IIRC all of the trannies were the same.

Jason




>Just a thought I haven't researched it though.
>
>
>Brian
>
>87 16v
>86 8v (parts car)
>85 Wolfsburg (white coming to a garage near me soon)
>
>
>
>>From: 16V Jason <jason@scirocco.org>
>>To: "Brian Wagner" <scirocco_88_16v@hotmail.com>, scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>>CC: cory.langford@icbc.com, "Fry, Larry" <LEF@chem-tronics.com>
>>Subject: Re: Could be simple question on gear ratios..
>>Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:46:50 -0500
>>
>>At 02:03 PM 10/31/2001, Brian Wagner wrote:
>>>Question on why VW choose the .91 gear, at the time the speed limit in the
>>>US was 55. Cruising at 55 the rpm is around 3000, not bad in my opinion.
>>>The engineers designed the transmission and car for maximum output through
>>>the speedlimit of the day. Now that the speed limit has been raised to 70
>>>3800rpm is just to much, if the car was being produced today I'm sure the
>>>R&P and gear range would more closely relate to the speed limits and turn
>>>a much lower rpm.
>>
>>At 02:06 PM 10/31/2001, Fry, Larry wrote:
>>>Only one comment to add to Jason's excellent explanation of fifth-gear
>>>ratios and their applications:
>>>To the .91's "most noise, most wear, worst fuel economy." add "most
>>>satisfying top-gear acceleration."  For us old crocks who like to just toe
>>>into it at 80mph and leave the unsuspecting challengers behind, without
>>>downshifting, this is the one.  (and I still get 29 mpg)
>>>Enjoy the ride.
>>
>>Well, both of you are right... 3000rpm at 55mph certainly isn't bad... but
>>why do it when the engine could have easily put up with a much longer 5th
>>gear ratio and cruised at 2200rpm at the speed limit?
>>
>>There are two answers:  One is Larry Fry's:  The car had awesome top-gear
>>acceleration.
>>
>>The other answer is that the rest of the gear ratios are incredibly short
>>on the close-ratio gearbox. 1st is actually pretty normal, and so is
>>2nd.  But 3rd and 4th are so much shorter than "normal cars" that a drop
>>into a "normal" 5th gear ratio would have been awkward.  That's my guess on
>>why the .91 was their choice.  The 0.75 puts my car at around 3000rpm at
>>70mph, which is very typical gearing for a 4-cylinder compact car... but
>>the drop between 4th and 5th is too big to have as an OEM thing.
>>
>>The other thing I want to point out to Brian, though, is that the car
>>wasn't designed for the US Market, it was designed for the German market,
>>where there are no speed limits on most highways (especially 15 years
>>ago).  That makes it all the more curious to me why they didn't at least
>>use the 80.  Can you imagine cruising around at the very-common,
>>not-really-fast speed of 100mph (160km/h) on an Autobahn at almost 5500 rpm
>>all day!?  I'd kill myself in that car.  Yes, I've done that in some
>>short-geared BMW 6-cylinders.  But those motors are quiet and don't
>>vibrate.  The 16V with stock gearing would be a dreadful car for
>>long-distance drives in Germany.  *However* obviously more important to VW
>>was high-speed acceleration -- and I'm sure the Sciroccos took more than
>>just a few people off guard the first time they raced them at highway
>>speeds - they're much faster than other cars with similar power/weight
>>ratios because of that gearing.
>>
>>For what it's worth, my Mercedes is a 190E Euro-spec with a 2.0 8V and a
>>4-speed auto.  It turns at 4000rpm at 80mph -- not too far from the stock
>>16V Scirocco gearing.  The gearing we got in the Sciroccos is actually not
>>uncommon at all in German-market cars.  An E36 318i in Euro trim will rev
>>over 3600rpm at 70mph...   The difference is that Germans aren't afraid of
>>revs like Americans are..
>>
>>Jason
>>
>>
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>
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