RE: suspension pros & cons

["Fry, Larry" <LEF@chem-tronics.com>]

Bump steer occurs because the tie rod and the lower control arm do not make
a perfect parallelogram.   That's the simplest explanation.

Larry  sandiego16V 

-----Original Message-----
From: Randy B [mailto:sirocco@telocity.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 1:02 AM
To: Shawn C Meze
Cc: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
Subject: Re: suspension pros & cons


He he he....thanks for the confidence! :P

Damn I gotta get the alignment setup on Mars so that I can drive down to the
city of Angles and see if I can keep up with ya'.
I know I can kick your arse on a dirt switchback mountain road (raised in
Montana, Colorado) which is where I cut my teeth (14yrs old-19yrs old) on.
8^D
But on to suspension stuff.....
Remeber that it is "BUMP steer" ie. hitting bumps with the suspension.
Laguna Seca, Sear Point, Thunder Hill, or a smooth AutoX course you will
probably not have as much of a problem.
On a bumpy track (I know most of the previously listed tracks have their
rough sections) and regular roads you should definitely have a problem with
bump steer.
Hit a bump and the car wants to dart to L/R.
With parallel to ground control arms (again I don't understand and can't
describe why) this does not occur as much on rougher road courses or
streets.
"Mars" will eventually be an "Auto X FSP?, Nasa HPDE, Virginia City Hill
Climb, One lap of America, Bonneville Salt flat, etc"..... toy for my
pleasure :).

Randy
(wish he'd gone into engineering instead of GIS sometimes)

> On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 00:01:54 -0800 "Randy B" <sirocco@telocity.com>
> writes:
> >Ok Shawn this is where I would disagree.
> >I am not an engineer and don't totally understand how the geometry
> >works with suspension travel but...
> >If you lower the car so that the control arms (A-arms) are no longer
> >parallel with the ground you will end up with severe bump steer. (I
> >know this from experimentation).
>
>
> I agree, you are no engineer. :)
> OK, I understand your point but my 82 has NO bump steer and the control
> arms are not level and im pretty sure my car can kick your cars ass in an
> autocross which is, by far the most severe suspension geometry test you
> can do, right? I don't mean my driving VS your driving. I think ive spent
> alot of time to get my car dialed in and since its 400lbs heavier than it
> needs to be, I do pretty good with it. (or I -did- until I started racing
> the Vette....) Ive heard a million experts tell me that the control arms
> need to be parallel to work right. I found different. I found you can go
> a little beyond level and it works pretty good. Get the car down somewhat
> and get the camber set and the car sticks. Its all about spring rates
> too. That's all im gonna say as im building a dedicated FSP car. :)
>
>
> >This will happen (the way I understand it) regardless of what type of
> >strut/shock/spring/coilover setup you have.
>
>
> uh-kay. I cant change your understanding. Maybe this will help.
>
> True or False: Coilovers can lower a car without altering a cars
> suspension geometry?
> Hmm..
>
>
>
> >My understanding is that if you want to go REAL low for performance
> >(not
> >looks) you must find a way to keep the control arms parallel. (custom
> >wheel bearing housings)
> >I KNOW you understand this better than I so you should be able to
> >describe why this is true and how this works.
> >Help me (and others) see the light :)
>
>
> VW's don't like to be really low for performance. Well,I should the
> suspension setup on A! thru A3 cars don't like it. At least, they really
> don't respond well to the "slamming look of cars performance wise. I
> mean, ive got kids telling me that their Rabbit is like on rails and all
> he did was cut the coils while in auto shop. They only know what they
> experience. if it feels faster then, it feels faster. Doesn't mean it IS
> faster/better. And like anything else, there is a compromising point
> between a low stance and performance. What do you want more of? You can
> go TOO low. yes, id definitely agree with that but there is away to get
> both if you want it. (I don't. just know its can be done.)
> Its late, if I missed anything, be sure to tell me.
>
> Oh, BTW, I like the manifold on your Roc. The removal of the webbing
> looks vagely familiar to me... seen it done somewhere before.... hmmm. :)
> your welcome!
>
>
> Shawn Méze
> 86' Jetta GLi 8V       84' Scirocco 8V           88' Corvette -SS 30-
> 82' Scirocco GTi -FSP 54-     79' "Project FSP Scirocco"
> The Fastest, Quickest, Cleanest and best looking Scirocco(s) in all of
> San Diego!
> http://www.Geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1308/index.htm
>
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