Re: O2 Sensor Works HOW? was: Fw: RE:solder vs. crimp

[16V Jason <jason@scirocco.org>]

At 10:28 PM 11/14/2001, MrAudi wrote:
>ok so i'm not perfect. sue me.....lol.

Okay, my lawyers will talk to your lawyers. :)


>  but i really think that the computer
>uses a set voltage value for rich and lean. ie: 2.50 volts would be off, or
>"lean" and 2.60 would be on or "rich" and the puter trys to toggle it just
>between those ranges. but feel free to correct me if i am wrong

It could be -- it would just be something I was totally unaware of... 
hopefully someone can give a definitive answer...

Jason





>Jason Neubold
>86 Tornado Red 16v
>85 Tornado Red Audi Coupe GT
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "16V Jason" <jason@scirocco.org>
>To: "MrAudi" <mraudi25@epix.net>; "Fry, Larry" <LEF@chem-tronics.com>;
>"scirocco-mail list" <Scirocco-L@scirocco.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 2:57 PM
>Subject: Re: O2 Sensor Works HOW? was: Fw: RE:solder vs. crimp
>
>
> > At 08:16 PM 11/14/2001, MrAudi wrote:
> > >i just downloaded 140 messages so i apologize if i repeat anything. the
>o2
> > >sensor works with heat. if you were to observe the o2 output on a cold
>car
> > >you would see an obvious difference after the car warms up.
> >
> > Yes, until the O2 sensor reaches normal operating temperature, its output
> > is far less than what it should be.  At ambient air temperatures, it's
> > close to 0.
> >
> >
> > >  all new cars
> > >have heating elements built into the sensor so that it works almost
> > >immmediatly after the engine is started.
> >
> > Correct; I can't speak for the 8V, but the 16V Scirocco has a heated O2
> > sensor as well.  It's still several minutes before it's heated to normal
> > temperature though.
> >
> > >  the sensor does not measure
> > >anything outside of the exhaust system. the reading from the sensor is
> > >analog, but the computer interprets it to be digital (on/off).
> >
> > Whoa!  Wait a second. :)
> > You're right about the first part, but the computer most definitely
> > interprets it as an analog value.  The O2 sensor, when warm, creates a
> > small voltage with the presence of Oxygen.  It outputs 0V if there is no
> > oxygen, and about 1V at "full rich".  The engine computer is continually
> > altering the mixture to keep these numbers as close to zero as possible
> > unless under full acceleration (open-loop full-rich).
> >
> >
> > >  there for the
> > >wires would not have to be exposed to the atmosphere. the problem i was
> > >talking about in regards to soldering the wire is this, solder is made up
> > >mostly of lead. as we all know lead has a reletivily high resistance to
> > >electricity. the computer i a car relys on a precise signal from the o2
> > >sensor. a difference of .01 volt will affect the mixture.
> >
> > Right -- you got all this right, that's why I'm a little 'fused about the
> > computer interpreting it digitally (on/off).
> >
> > In all reality, a difference of 0.01 volt probably won't make enough of a
> > difference to anything -- the variation between two identically produced
> > oxygen sensors is probably on that order.  But your point is right -- you
> > want to have as direct a connection as possible, otherwise your engine
>will
> > be running slightly richer than the computer thinks it is.
> >
> >
> > >  so soldering the
> > >wires with lead solder could concivably affect the sensors operation. ok
>now
> > >i need to go bandage the pointer fingers on both of my hands.......lol
> >
> > That's true.
> >          It was, however, my understanding that Bosch recommends crimping
> > the connection and not using solder for a different reason, namely that of
> > heat.  As we know, exhaust systems get very hot... much hotter than
> > necessary to turn solder into runny liquid.  Therefore, with the exhaust
>at
> > normal operating temperature, you risk having the connection fail.
> >
> > Jason
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >Jason Neubold
> > >86 Tornado Red 16v
> > >85 Tornado Red Audi Coupe GT
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Fry, Larry" <LEF@chem-tronics.com>
> > >To: "T Berk" <tberk@mindspring.com>
> > >Cc: "Scirocco List" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > >Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 6:49 AM
> > >Subject: RE: O2 Sensor Works HOW? was: Fw: RE:solder vs. crimp
> > >
> > >
> > > > Makes no sense that the O2 sensor's designers would have it sampling
> > > > atmosphere through an electrical wire (even if that could be done,
>which I
> > > > doubt) when a simple port in the sensor's body would suffice.  Also,
>why
> > > > would it need to sample atmosphere at all?  Within a few tenths of a
> > > > percent, the concentration of O2 in the atmosphere is a known
>constant.
> > > > I'm with you on this one, TBerk.
> > > >
> > > > Larry  sandiego16V
> > > > old (anal) crock and his old 'Roc
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: T Berk [mailto:tberk@mindspring.com]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 9:25 PM
> > > > Cc: Scirocco List
> > > > Subject: O2 Sensor Works HOW? was: Fw: RE:solder vs. crimp
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dave Ewing wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Totally missing the point.  Solder all the wires you want, even use
>pipe
> > > > > solder, I don't care, I just said that the wires to the 02 sensor
>need
> > >to
> > > > be
> > > > > crimped as per Bosch.  This has nothing to do with strength or type
>of
> > > > > solder or any other wires in the whole car, just the 02 sensor
>wires.
> > > > This
> > > > > is why the generic 3 wire 02 sensors that you can get from Bosch
>have
> > > > > the crimps on them and includes a note on what to do.  HTH!!
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Is the WIRE really adding value via exposure to outside air  OR  is
>the
> > > > O2 sensor built with little ports or holes that allow for the sensors'
> > > > element to have an Exhaust vs Atmosphere reading?
> > > >
> > > > I have trouble with the idea the WIRE needs atmosphere exposure. Don't
> > > > believe it.  It's my conjecture a crimp on is easier and makes
>economic
> > > > sense.
> > > >
> > > > TBerk
> > > > sometimes Head = Knuckle, sometimes just Hard.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
> > > > To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to
> > > > majordomo@scirocco.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Disclaimer]This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended solely
>for
> > >the
> > > > addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal,
> > > > professional, or other privilege. If you are not the intended
>addressee
> > >you
> > > > must not use, disclose, or copy this transmission. This E-mail is not
> > > > intended to impose nor shall it be construed as imposing any legally
> > >binding
> > > > obligation upon GKN Aerospace Chem-tronics Inc. and/or any of its
> > > > subsidiaries or associated companies. Neither GKN Aerospace
>Chem-tronics
> > > > Inc. nor any of its subsidiaries or associated companies gives any
> > > > representation or warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of the
> > > > contents of this E-mail. GKN Aerospace Chem-tronics Inc. shall not be
>held
> > > > liable to any person resulting from the use of any information
>contained
> > >in
> > > > this E-mail and shall not be liable to any person who acts or omits to
>do
> > > > anything in reliance upon it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
> > > > To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to
> > >majordomo@scirocco.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
> > >To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to
> > >majordomo@scirocco.org
> >
>
>
>--
>Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
>To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to 
>majordomo@scirocco.org


--
Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to majordomo@scirocco.org