RE: Why my '81 16v won't start? (part 2)

["Dave Novak" <toastworks@hotmail.com>]

> >I get continuity from D15 on the fuse box to T14/4 (at the instrument 
> >cluster), meaning signal gets from the fuse box to the instrument 
> >cluster (tach), BUT that circuit has NO continuity with chassis ground.
>Did you do the same thing for the wire between the fuse box/relay panel and 
>terminal 1 of the coil?
>I assume D15 is one of the fuel pump relay pins?  Or is in switched +12v?

Yes, the wire from the coil to the fuse box has continuity and no continuity 
with chassis ground. That wire's all good. (I fused that, by the way)

>The path you want to isolate is this. Terminal 1 of the coil to the fuel 
>pump relay (solenoid?) and from the FPR to the tach. None of these should 
>have continuity to ground. If anywhere along the way there is ground (as 
>you indicated for terminal 1 of the coil) then try to isolate where the 
>short circuit is. I'm sorry but I don't know the pin/terminal numbers for 
>any of those connections. But the wiring diagram should show them.

I'm having a tough time trying to figure out which wiring diagram to 
believe. If I use the diagram from an '81 Jetta (the diagram printed for an 
'81 Scirocco is for cars without breakerless transisorized ignition 
systems), I see what looks like the solenoid of the fuel pump being given 
positive power from terminal 15 from within the fuse box, and given ground 
from within the fuse box, too. (My car had the recall performed which moved 
the fuel pump relay to off the top of the fuse box.

The letters and numbers don't match up from the book to the actual relay and 
connectors, so I'm having a tough time.

Is there some way I could fool the fuel pump into thinking it's getting that 
pulse?

> >When I turn the ignition on, the fuel pump is supposed to prime. >It 
>doesn't. However, if I remove power from coil terminal #15 (which also 
> >disconnects power from the CIS-E computers), the fuel pump primes.
>that IS screwed up. But at least we're making progress. I havn't taken any 
>Fuel Pump Relays (FPR) apart yet, so I don't know exactly
I wanna know what's causing this. It doesn't make any sense at all to me.

>I also don't know what happens to coils when they have +12 at terminal 15 
>and a permanent ground at terminal 1. I could see that this could wear out 
>the coil pretty fast.

Well, I know my coil still sparks, cause I can jump it and get some gasoline 
to ignite. But, I'm not as good at firing the coil at the right time as my 
Ignition Control Unit is. If I were, I'd just do that while I was driving.. 
=) Maybe I should practice.

>I'm looking at the diagram for the knock sensor control unit. I found it at 
>http://www.volkswagen.org/EngineSwap/Default.htm
>and the diagram says it is for both the RD and PL engine types. It shows 
>terminal 10 going to circuit 50, which is +12v when key is in "Start" 
>position.
>I will make a note of this and try to look up both wiring diagrams in my 
>Bentleys tonight.

The Bentley from an '89 GLI 16v says terminal 10 of the knock box goes right 
into the fuse box at G1/3, and mates to terminal 3/85 of the fuel pump relay 
(solenoid). The other terminal of the solenoid goes to terminal 15 within 
the fuse box.

Might I also add that the fuel pump relay in the Jetta has only four points 
whereas the Scirocco's fuel pump relay has five connectors.

I can only imagine this is due to the knock box controlling the fuel pump 
relay... acting as a rev limiter. When the knock box says "too much revs", 
it cuts the ground on the Jetta's fuel pump starving the engine of fuel.

I did save the fuse box, fuel pump relay and almost every wire out of the 
Jetta... Just in case. =)

>You have tried jumpering the terminals for the fuel pump, right.

No. I couldn't figure out how. I didn't wanna blow anything up. I couldn't 
figure out how because the pin designations didn't match in the Scirocco's 
Bentley.

If I jumpered the fuel pump relay, would I have to give it that ground pulse 
by hand every 1.5 seconds?

I can't believe we're actually getting somewhere with this car.

It may run, but getting it out of the muddy backyard could be a problem.. I 
took some pictures this morning so you could all have a chuckle. I'll post 
them on my site as soon as I can.

-Dave
'81 Scirocco 16v (Winnie)
'87 Subaru GL 4WD Wagon (Evelyn)

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