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Re: 16V Scirocco (tranny blow up)
On Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:39:02 PDT "Bryan Geiszler" <wubbledub@hotmail.com>
writes:
> I just couldn't help putting my $0.02 in.
> It has been my experience(for all that's worth) that using a
> combination downshifting and braking going into a corner helps better
control
> the braking force, keeping the tires just short of lock.
That is the moment of maximum traction, right before it breaks loose.
Peter
> there were many a time that had I not done both my car would have
> gone in a
> straight line farther than I wanted it to.
> Just my observation.
>
> Bryan
> '81 Scirocco
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: 16v Jason <jason@scirocco.org>
> To: scirocco list <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> Subject: RE: 16V Scirocco (tranny blow up)
> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:55:30 -0400
>
> Allright, I'm gonna start a war... but then again, what else is
> new... :)
>
> At 10:18 AM 9/29/99 , Snow, Jason wrote:
> >1.) I have a someone following me into a curve, let's say I don't
> know,
> >YOU...your right on my ass, I hit the brake, because I am going
> faster
> than
> >I should, now your even closer, and let's say, my brakes
> lock...DOH! now
> we
> >are both floating around with harps...OR I downshift, let the car
> hold
> >itself back, and now at the end of the curve, I am stabbing the
> gas, AND I
> >am in a lower gear, if you use your brake, you are wondering why I
> am 3 or
> >four car lengths ahead of you.
>
> HOLD ON HOLD ON!!!
> Your tires (front or rear, but in this case we're talking front)
> have a
> certain amount of grip that they can provide. Once you cross that
> limit,
> they skid. Whether you reach that limit with engine braking or your
> brake
> pedal doesn't matter none to the tires. So asserting that using
> engine
> braking to slow you down more quickly is ridiculous.
>
> And further, when you're using your engine and clutch to slow you
> down,
> which, by the way is horrible driving practice, you're not
> extracting any
> benefit from the <ahem> REAR BRAKES, which, while they're not doing
> 50% of
> braking, certainly help to slow the car significantly, and at the
> same time
> serve to maintain the balance of the vehicle.
>
> (For the record, Jason never inserts points he can't back up. :) I
> have in
> front of me test results carried about by the DOT for a car with a
> partial
> brake failure. Measured in feet from 60mph, this car (a Peugeot 505
> STX)
> braked from 60mph in 148 feet. With the rear circuit
> non-operational, the
> car took 197 feet. 50 feet is a significant increase in stopping
> distance
> from 60mph... actually, it's HUGE. And, for those of you who are
> curious,
> with just the rear brakes, the car (which had almost 50/50 weight
> distribution for the record) took 354 feet to stop.)
>
> So, the reason you're 3 or 4 car lengths in front of me, Jason, is
> because
> you spun out off the road and flew off a cliff. :)
>
> >2.) Downshifting into a curve is better than braking.
>
> Bullshit. The entire purpose of downshifting ***BEFORE*** a curve
> is to
> set up the engine so that it's at the optimum revs through, and
> after, the
> curve. It is positively HORRENDOUS driving practice to, say,
> downshift
> into 2nd gear at 45mpg during a curve. If you want to downshift,
> you do it
> while _entering_ the curve, and you use heel-and-toeing to match the
> revs
> so that the sudden weight transfer doesn't upset the balance of the
> vehicle-- especially in vehicles that tend to trailing-throttle
> oversteer,
> like our beloved Sciroccos.
>
> If you're in the appropriate gear upon exiting a corner, yes, you
> will be
> faster than the other guy who still has yet to downshift.
>
> Road & Track published a little tidbit on how downshifting is bad
> driving
> practice a few years back and created a brouhaha like they'd never
> had
> before-- thousands upon thousands of drivers wrote in and said "What
> are
> you fucking crazy?! Do you mean to say that every F1 driver is a
> BAD
> DRIVER?"
>
> But Road & Track won. They are right. The purpose of downshifting
> is to
> put your car in the best possible gear to leave the curve. The main
> purpose is *not* to slow your vehicle... it's a nice little positive
> side-effect and nothing more. Hence, slowing for a stop sign,
> there's no
> reason to slam your car into 2nd at 40mph and let the clutch drag
> your
> engine up to 4000rpm. Leave the fucking thing in 3rd, and disengage
> the
> clutch at idle.
>
> Entering a turn at 35mph, sure, make sure you're in 2nd before the
> curve,
> so at the apex you can slam your foot on the gas and pull through...
> or
> even better, if the car starts to oversteer, you have the power to
> pull the
> rear end through the skid using the throttle.
>
> But for heaven's sake, don't ever, EVER downshift harshly during a
> curve.
> Your brakes will slow you better than any engine braking will, more
> quickly
> *and* more safely. Get your car in the gear it needs to be before
> you turn
> in, and you'll be even faster than that Olds Delta 88 Brougham
> you've had
> all over your ass around those bends.
>
> Jason
>
>
>
>
> ----------
> 1987 Scirocco 16v
> 1989 Mercedes 190E Sport Euro
>
>
> http://members.aol.com/rocco16v
>
>
>
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